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Muzzleloader against Centerfire Rifle!!!

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Muzzleloader against Centerfire Rifle!!!

Old 02-17-2017, 05:59 PM
  #1  
Nontypical Buck
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Default Muzzleloader against Centerfire Rifle!!!

I've been off work for awhile now and have been watching a lot of hunting and shooting. And a lot of it reminds me when I was younger and using CF rifles. I mainly used a 30-30, 270 and 30-06. I was not into testing guns and bullets by any means. My primary bullet choices back then were Remington and towards the end Hornady light magnums.

And just like now on tv, I very rarely had a Deer drop in it's tracks. I've watched 35 Whelens, 300 weatherby magnums, and many more shoot Deer, Bear, Elk and Moose. And none of them kill like my Knight Disc Elite and a 200grn Bloodline. I mean honestly not even close. And while I'm writing this, the CVA scout I just bought comes to mind. I bought a 45-70 and had it converted to a ML. I'll mainly shoot a light load of N120 and it will increase the velocity on this bullet as well. Which will create even more energy.

But is energy really that important? I understand you need it but how important is it? I would bet a 270 would have almost 2800 foot pounds at the muzzle. My ML is no way near that. But I know for a fact I'll clean its clock on game at 200 yards and under. I don't doubt the CVA will extend that range but I don't have any experience to back it up yet. I really believe the bullet is every bit as important as energy if not more important.

I've shot many many many different bullets out of a ML. One bullet you can't push to fast, one bullet you need to push fast. But none of them are even close to what I use. I actually shot two Deer with a Lyman DeerStalker Flintlock with a 200grn Bloodline with 100grns by volume of black powder. Talk about enemic load that's it. But got the same results if I was shooting it with 130grns of BH209 out of an inline ML.

I'm real excited about the new copper bullets that Lehigh came out with to compete with the Brass Bloodline bullets. http://www.lehighdefense.com/collections/muzzleloader/products/452-controlled-fracturing-muzzleloader-265gr-bullet?variant=28146206856
And I'm looking forward to testing the soon to be out .40cal bullets to see how they compare with the current Bloodline bullets. The 265grn Copper bullets have done very well for me and others that tested them. But the .40cal bullets will be the key with me. Just harvested a lot more game with those.

So in the mean time I'm honestly convinced, not only am I using the best ML bullet in the world!!! I'm just using the best bullet in general you can buy. And I would really like to see this concept in CF bullets for hunting.
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Old 02-17-2017, 09:06 PM
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And that is exactly why I made the move to Nosler Partitions so long ago... to help stop all that Tom-Foolery...
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Old 02-17-2017, 09:15 PM
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Originally Posted by sabotloader View Post
And that is exactly why I made the move to Nosler Partitions so long ago... to help stop all that Tom-Foolery...
I've never used Nosler in any gun before. I don't know what particular Nosler Jim Shockey uses in his CF rifles but boy they are bad. Of course he claims he uses them but I guess he might not?? I'm sure many people watch the Outdoor channel and everything he shoots runs and runs. Is the partition you like a premium bullet?
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Old 02-17-2017, 09:15 PM
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Eh, I've had them drop in their tracks from just about everything in the centerfire world of bullets. And I've had them run forever. Same with ML bullets as well. Bullet placement is the key to whatever you are shooting. Bullet performance is second. I've nailed the boiler room, completely destroying the heart and lungs and watched them run for a couple hundred yards. Same shot, same rifle, same load, dropped in their tracks. The last several years now, I've been using High Shoulder shot placement. They don't even move any other way than straight down. For that shot, you need very good external ballistics for excellent accuracy. I've nailed a few deer now with the Lehighs as well as a few for my daughter now. They have performed flawlessly. None of mine have taken a step. Only one of hers took a step and it wasn't but a few dirty nose shuffle steps from a 211 yard shot. It's not a bullet I would want to compete at a long range contest with, but it is plenty accurate enough for a 200-250 yard shot. External ballistics wise, it aint a Parker. But a Parker aint a Leghi or a Bloodline when it comes to Terminal Ballistics either.
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Old 02-18-2017, 05:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Grouse45 View Post
I've never used Nosler in any gun before. I don't know what particular Nosler Jim Shockey uses in his CF rifles but boy they are bad. Of course he claims he uses them but I guess he might not?? I'm sure many people watch the Outdoor channel and everything he shoots runs and runs. Is the partition you like a premium bullet?
Yes it is a premium and I believe Shockey use the high BC accu-bond or the Ballistic Tip. Big difference between them and the Partitions.
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Old 02-18-2017, 06:35 AM
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Shockey uses the Nosler Ballistic Tip MZ bullet or so he says. Its nothing more than a SST type bullet in .458 It did fairly well in Ron's jug testing. Very similar to what ive seen in the 300gr SST weight retention/expansion.

Nosler offers the exact same bullet in bulk 50 packs for 458 SOCOM
458 Caliber 300 Grain
Ballistic Tip Hunting Bullet
Part# 31456
Spitzer Point
Im much more interested in copper 40cal bullets over 200gr that will shoot in sabots. It can be slightly tricky with the current 45x40 sabot selection but it is doable.
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Old 02-18-2017, 07:40 AM
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The Leigh copper bullet I must admit interests me also. I always was a fan of the Barnes Copper bullets. The testing I did with them and a Black Diamond XR was to say the least spectacular in the devastation department and the hold together and deform perfect department. One reason I hunted for years with my Knight LK rifle and a Barnes MZ Expander. I just wish the deer had cooperated.

Are these new copper bullets heavy weight or light weight? I will be watching for your updates on it.

As for your topic of center fire VS muzzleloader, I have had deer drop in their tracks from Center Fires. Both the 30-06 and the 7mm Remington Magnum has planted a lot of deer. But it was all shot placement. I used to do a lot of neck shooting when young. But as the distances got longer, I changed to center mass shooting. Although I have still dropped them there too.

With a muzzleloader, I have never taken a deer yet with a sabot. Every time I hunt with one, I never see anything to shoot. But I have shot a large number of deer with round ball, and conical. And most of them were a bang flop.
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Old 02-18-2017, 08:42 AM
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Good grief Charlie Brown! I've had many more deer drop where they stood then ran off. As far back as I can remember using a CF I only ever had 2 deer run off. One was with a .243 but upon later examination the usually reliable 100 gr Hornady Interlock exploded on contact and never penetrated. The other was a Remington Core-Lokt 150 from a .308. Both deer were recovered however with the one using the .243 required a quick running follow up shot. All the deer (and antelope) shot with my .270 dropped like a sack of potatoes.
My ratio with the ML is about 50-50 dropping and running. This includes deer taken with PRB, Powerbelt, XTPs, REALs, and Barnes EZs. IMO its about 99% bullet placement.

Last edited by bronko22000; 02-18-2017 at 08:45 AM.
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Old 02-18-2017, 09:17 AM
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Originally Posted by bronko22000 View Post
Good grief Charlie Brown! ........ IMO its about 99% bullet placement.
Exactly! Perfect!
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Old 02-18-2017, 09:21 AM
  #10  
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Thanks for the replys guys. But shame on me for not being more specific. I'm not talking about neck or shoulder shots. I'm talking strictly behind the shoulders and back. I think now this truly shows how good your particular bullet is. In the heat of the moment I always aim in the center of the Elk or Deer right behind the shoulders. I just feel it allows a lot of room for error and I get more meat this way as well. That's a lot more important to me with Elk ecspecialy.
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