sabotloader,
I have been trying the Lehighs but even though they shot better after changing to the light blue smooth sabots from the CR sabots and increasing the charge of 209 to 115gr I still want to experiment. Ifeel I can get them to shoot better. The XTPs are just amazing. And Grouse I noticed the vertical stringing myself but I changed sabots. When using the Harvester light blue CR sabot they just piled up into one 1" spot.

bronko2200...I agree, the group is actually good even counting the first clean barrel shot. I have been using Montana X lately. Maybe it is helping. This is why I think with BH209 and this load I can shoot #1 clean and not worry.

Try a repeat next time out and see if your first shot hits same POI. If so, adjust your sights/scope up a bit.

Exactly. I will be shooting this load (or maybe a touch more powder) from a clean barrel and documenting the results each time I shoot. If it shoots to the same poi with the first shot then I feel I willhave it nailed.

This answer will not help you. But depending on what rifle I shoot, some I will hunt off a clean barrel like my Knight Disc and others like my Trade Rifle I foul the barrel and then hunt from a fouled bore. My Whites will just plain shoot and they are so little off from the first shot to the second, that anything I throw that fireplug into is not going to care about my 3/4 of an inch.

That is some excellent shooting you have there. You have little to worry about.

Hunting with a clean barrel is too much work IMO! I like shooting at the range without having to clean my barrel between each shot!

With 777, one spit patch followed by one clean patch (what I still call a fouled barrel) is how I like to practice and hunt.

With BH 209, I have shot as many as 30 shots WITHOUT SWABBING ONCE! That is a lot more fun for me than having to doa lot of swabbing, not to mention what it would take to really clean the barrel between each shot. And I get great groups with this method.

It is a lot less work to foul my barrel before I hunt than it is to practice by cleaing between each shot. AND the first shot will always go where the first one did in a quick follow up!

Yeah txhunter, Blackhorn offers a different option. I would probably do as you do if I were using it. But (so far) I'm using T7/Pyrodex/GOEX - hence my clean barrel approach.

I always sight my gun in on a clean barrel.Then i don't have to worry about where the very first bullet goes.It really is not much more trouble to sight in on a clean barrel,just a few more patches and time is all you need

The time is what I am talking about. I can get twice as many shots in during a session (or more) as compared to really cleaning the barrel between each shot.

And with 777, I don't even shoot a bullet to foul the barrel. I simply pour in about 15-20 gr of powder down the barrel, load a primer, aim it straight up and pop a cap. Then I swab with one spit patch, one clean patch, and I am ready to load up with a fouled barrel.

Haven't quite figured it out without actually firing a bullet with blackhorn since it is a progressively buring powder and needs to pressure of a bullet to go off. However, since it is relatively noncorrosive, I feel all right firing and loading up the day before the hunt, and not unloading until I shoot or the hunt is over.

No, no, no...I have no intentions of swabbing between shots when I am at the range. My first shot is my clean barrel test shot. Then I go about having fun. With BH209 I pull the breach plug at about 20-25 shots, wipe it and ream it quick then go back to shooting. Using my Lyman with Pyrodex I swab of course (and hunt from a fouled bore).

With my PH and my Accura using BH209 and my hunting loads it seems I can get away with "first shot clean barrel" hunting with no problem.

I am just suprised how many hunt from a clean bore. My impression was that most hunted from a fouled barrel. I should have also mentioned my concern was with BH209.