Good choice. Excellent bullet. Chap

Speaking the truth may ruffle some feather, but the truth needs to be told. Only the truth will allow us to sort the marketing hype from the facts on proper useage of a bullet.

Chap

Exactly. We (the board)don't recommend PowerBelt with BDC scope for open fields in the mid-west.
Chap

Here is the Bass Pro site: http://reviews.basspro.com/2010/82231/reviews.htm














Overall Rating:

1 out of 5 [/align]Wonderful Bullet but NO BLOOD TRAIL, November 2, 2008
By ecAltus
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"There is no doubt that this is one of the most accurate black powder bullet I have ever shot threw my Thompson. But when it comes to the time after the shot on a deer there is no blood trail. Between me and my dad we have shot 3 doe with these bullets and found only one, only cause she dropped in her tracts, the other two ran off into cover. Found hair on both but there was no blood trail."




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0of1people found this review helpful.[/align]Share this Review: [/align]


Review4forThompson/Center Superglide Shock Wave Sabot Bullets








Overall Rating:

1 out of 5 [/align]never again, October 23, 2008
By tomcat75 from Lexington KY
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"as mentioned in all reviews this bullet is accurate as any other tno doubt. There is only one small problem. THE BULLET WILL NOT OPEN UP! My buddy shot a deer at 25 yds another at 87 yds and nothing, absolutely no blood trail. both deer were hit solid thru the lungs. I shot a deer at 153 yds went thru in front of shoulder broke a rib took both lungs took rib on the way out took shoulder and guess what? no blood no expansion. I found deers bed and only 2 drops of blood! The shot was low in the chest! with no expansion the wound just sealed up. Luckily I found the deer 2hrs 19 mins later almost 200 yds away from the hit.
Accurate yes, Reliable expansion? NO!"




What do you usually hunt?: Deer
How many times a year do you hunt on average?: 11+
Would you recommend this product as a gift?: No
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Share this Review: [/align][/align]-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------[/align][/align]Chap[/align]

Gut shot deer don't bleed well with anything except a 20mm cannon round. This is what I mean about these reviews.

If we're going to post reviews let's be fair with what is there:
"This is the first bullet that i used in my muzzleloader and this is the only bullet that i will use in my omega because on the second day of the youth season in ohio i shot a spike at 92 yards with this bullet. The bullet hit him in the heart and there was blood on the ground before he could even take a step forward, he only went 30 yards and the exit hole was the size of a golf ball."

I highly recomend these Sabots! Ive used them for a couple of years now. I took a 170 lb. 8 point whitetail deer this season, and at 70 yards with a clean lung shot, he dropped in his tracks, they truly deliver a SHOCKWAVE."

"I would recomend both the 250 & 300 Gr Shockwave Sabots. My son recently bagged a 10pt 180# buck with his T/C Endevor 50/209 using 250 Gr.sabot loaded with 150 gr. 777. It preformed well on a shoulder shot at 50 yards. I recently shot a Doe 120 # at 75 yards using my T/C Encore Pro Hunter 50/209 with 300 Gr.sabot loaded with 150gr Pyrodex. Doudle lung shot the deer went 20 Yards. Great preformance , with large exit hole. Maine"

For every post claiming they don't expand, there are more indicating they do fine. Overall rating is about the same as for the barnes, 4.2 vs 4.3. Perhaps this comes down to expectations? If you are expecting catastrophic destruction, you will be disappointed. I personally like being able to shoot a deer through some meat and not ruin the entire quarter, but if you feel that is how tough your deer is then by all means I agree a Barnes is a better choice though I have personal experience that prevents me from trusting them.

I don't want to come across as inflammatory Chap, but have you ever personally shot anything with a SW? Or are these reviews the place you are forming your opinion from? The reason I ask is I am willing to go to the trouble of posting pictures of actual SWs used to take game and even go out and specifically take a shot yesterday missing the shoulder so I could post the results and come here and share that and my experiences on over 50 deer taken with the SW. I'm here to ask questions about it and respond with details. Yet you seem much more convinced by third-hand reviews on Cabelas and Bass Pro Shops where we lack details, know nothing about the skill of the hunter, and can't ask for clarification.

If your mind is made up we can agree to respectfully disagree; I'm just curious what formed such a strong opinion for you, I've only been around here a year so perhaps I lack some history or something.

Your correct on the lets be fair part, you have posted the "good things", I was posting the bad, so folks can make an independent judgement. So really you wanted people to post if they have shot and taken game with the SW---why don't youstart another thread then called "your experiences with taking game with the SW" and let folks post to that, ask what load and powder they were shooting so we get a good comparison. I have not taken game with SWs,but I do feel there are a lot of newbys that read these posts and they look for "confirmation" on their selection, if you see only good things, you will say "I made a good bullet choice", however lets say they are woods shooting with open sights back east here, so 80 yards is max expected shot, then I would recommend another bullet.
I don't want to start another bullet war like last year with on the Powerbelt, because some things get heated and personal and I value everyone's friendship on this board.I honestly value the collective wisdom of the board on all matter regarding MLer shooting, we on the board give our independent collective wisdom on a given subject and it is really great for everyone,also I value your wisdom and experience on the SW, since it is different from mine.

I do know this, my brother for 2 years after I went away from PB, would not listen to me on PBs. I told him to stop shooting the PBat 150g to drop his charge to 2 pelletsor get a different bullet. He like the easy loading and the 150g was the most accurate, and he shot a big buck on the shoulder at about 30 yards. He sent a bunch of hair, skin and bullet fragments to CVA with about 10 packages of Powerbelts and a very angry letter. He asked me for an easy loading bullet, I recommended the Harvester Saber tooth. He likes that bullet. He still shoots 150g of Pyrodex RS in his guns and doesn't change much, he bought 10 packages of 15 of the Harvester bullets, and still shoots them. He won't shoot a saboted bullet because he had to pound one down his bore the first time he tried them. He does shoot PRB in his FL so he knows about "just right tight".

I believe the same thing is true of the SW, you can use them for a long time and have good performance and good results, but then your gonna get a shoot thru the ribs and a small hole thru the lungs and your not going to get the animal. Just like your post with the bonded SW (way too tough for deer), I think the pencil hole thrualso happens with regular SWs when they hit between the ribs on entry, then you got a long trailing job, now add to that shoot in thick cover with a lot of smoke and you got a perfect setup for a non recovered deer. I think that happens to a lot of new MLer shooters who don't know what to expect from a MLer hit.

I like Lee's idea of putting out a "best performance velocity" and yardage range for a given bullet. I think the SW is an excellent long range bullet for the midwest and west and open field shootingbetween 100 and 200 yards. I think they are GREAT then and really nothing beats them on accuracy.
Chap

Well guys, the objective viewpoint may eventually give some answers but I heard something that disturbed me on an other forum; if any of you have some info would you please share it.
According to what was said there has been a change in the Shock Waves they are supposed to have gone to a different plastic tip and thicker jacket and harder lead, now the ones I have were bought in large quantity for a couple dollars a box at an end of the year Walmart sale a couple years agoand the are almost to fragile are these newer ones going to be a problem ? Lee

Thank you for the clarification, Chap. I was trying to be careful not to start a "bullet war" either, which is why I chose my words carefully.

The reason I asked about trying them yourself is that while I would totally agree that it is important to point out the positives and negatives of any bullet/gun/equipment for new shooters, it is equally important to be fair and clarify whether you have gleaned this information for first-hand experience or second- or third-hand. With the way things change and things are lost as the story changes hands, I use a large grain of salt with any second- or third- hand information. I know you're still of the opinion that they can pencil through the ribs and such, and when I'm interpreting that it's important to know if this happened to you or it's off product reports etc. This is why although I don't personally use the Barnes MZ because of my personal experience with the shotgun version, I am very hesitant to tell people THEY should not be using the Barnes MZ because I have not personally tried and had the bad experience with that exact version of the bullet.

"I believe the same thing is true of the SW, you can use them for a long time and have good performance and good results, but then your gonna get a shoot thru the ribs and a small hole thru the lungs and your not going to get the animal. Just like your post with the bonded SW (way too tough for deer), I think the pencil hole thru also happens with regular SWs when they hit between the ribs on entry, then you got a long trailing job, now add to that shoot in thick cover with a lot of smoke and you got a perfect setup for a non recovered deer. I think that happens to a lot of new MLer shooters who don't know what to expect from a MLer hit."

Anything can happen. The longest run I ever had after a double-lung hit was a 300gr soft lead gaping hollowpoint. To be fair, as I noted in the post with the pic of the lungs, that was about the least damage I had ever seen from a SW. Typically they look a lot worse for wear but I never take pics. I will next time but that will have to wait a year!

I've got nothing more to share on this I guess, until next year when I get to do more "testing"

Happy shooting, whatever you are flinging downrange...

I cannot speak for the heavier weights but it would not hurt the 200gr bullet to be a tad tougher. I would not worry until I saw the results on them. If you feel yours are "almost too fragile", I would think you may welcome the change.

I would hope they actually announce when they incorporate these changes. I get irate when manufacturers change things and don't announce it (they did it to the sabots once, it affected POI for me).

I've killed several deer and an awful lot of hogs with the 250 grain SST/Shockwave.

Over90 percent of my SST/Shockwave kills have been bang flops. Every animal was recovered. Sometimes theyexit and sometimes they do not. Not to matter:Put the bullet in the right place and it will do its job.

The SST/Shockwave is one of the most popular bullets out there. Some of the same folks who are now saying thatthe regular Shockwaves do not expand were formerly saying that they come apart and do not penetrate.

Barnes muzzleloading bullets have a Cabela'srating of 86 percent with 66 reviews.

How would your favorite bullet make out in a Cabela's customer survey?

Anyone can go to the Cabela's website and cherrypick some adverse ratings comments to support his supposition that Shockwaves do not expand on deer sized game. Politicians in DC do this kind of stuff.

The vast majority of SST/Shockwave users are happy with that bullet.

Hornady SST bullets have a rating of 92% with 37 reviews. 92 percent of 37 US citizens cannot agree that the moon comes up at night.

T/C Shockwaves have a rating of 84 percent with 63 reviews.

http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/product/standard-item.jsp?id=0020977215067a&navCount=1&podI d=0020977215067&parentId=cat200005&masterp athid=&navAction=jump&cmCat=MainCatcat2071 2-cat200005&catalogCode=IJ&rid=&parentTy pe=index&indexId=cat200005&hasJS=true

Shockwave Superglides has a rating of 88 percent with 63 reviews.

http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/product/standard-item.jsp?id=0040853216233a&navCount=11&pod Id=0040853&parentId=cat200005&masterpathid =&navAction=jump&cmCat=MainCatcat20712-cat200005_TGP&catalogCode=IJ&rid=&pare ntType=index&indexId=cat200005&hasJS=true

Bonded Shockwavebullets do not have a good rating because THEY DO NOT expand on deer sized game. Bonded Shockwaves were T/Cs answer to the folks who claimed that the Shockwave fragmented and did not exit deer sized game. Read the comments on this one. Some guy lost two deer because he shot them wrong and/or did not look for his wounded deer.