spaniel

This has come up several times over the past few months so I thought I would post this:


The top row is 200gr SWs, the bottom row is 240gr XTPs. All the deformed bullets were recovered in deer. The massively deformed SW to the left of the pristine example in the middle was shot at MV of 2100 fps (110gr 777) and impacted a large doe at 80 yards through both shoulders. As you can see, it opened almost flat under the far side skin while the lead exited in one piece through the skin leaving the jacket underneath. The less deformed bullet to the right was shot with the same load, more or less the same impact spot and recovery spot, but from 208 yards.

The XTP was shot from the same gun, same charge, and impacted a large doe through the shoulders at 75 yards. The bullet exited the far side and was found after tumbling in a thin layer of snow a few times maybe 40 yards beyond the deer.

What this tells me is that Shockwaves certainly do expand. These bullets did so shooting through shoulders over a WIDE velocity range as evidenced by the impact range difference of about 130 yards (208 - 80). Do they fragment? I argue this would indicate not. Even with an 80 yard shot that passed through about as much bone as any bullet will need to pass through, the lead did not separate until the jacket got caught under the offside skin. Clearly any easier path (through lungs, heart, ribs) would have resulted in a less aggressive expansion.

But will they open without hitting the shoulder? I argue the 208 yard example says they do. The impact velocity was MUCH lower that far out, yet the bullet was still very opened. A closer shot with much higher velocity would make up for hitting less bone in creating expansion.

I wish I had some non-shoulder shots to post but those are ALWAYS pass-thrus. And none of those deer have gone very far for me so it is hard to argue with the results.

Contrast this to the XTP. The front third of the bullet expanded with the base intact. But the front only expanded modestly over the bullet diameter. I do not have wound channel pictures but I can tell you a Shockwave wound channel is more impressive than what this XTP did. I shot the HTP (predecessor to the XTP) for years and the deer, on average, ran further than the ones I shoot with the SW.

I look at it this way. These Shockwaves expand well for me on deer over a wide velocity range and I have had excellent luck dropping them in their tracks or after only a few steps, even when I don't hit a shoulder. The XTP expanded only modestly at close range, would it have expanded at all at 200 yds? I doubt it. Deer are soft. I think the SW is a great DEER bullet, but the XTP would make the better elk/hog bullet of these two examples. I would not shoot an elk with the 200SW and expect it to perform as well as it does on deer. If I shot an elk in the shoulder at 50 yds with this SW there is a chance it would not penetrate adequately.

Semisane

Good report spaniel.

Big Ol Gobbler

Thanks for the info.

MOEncore

Great posting...thanks.

I see people all the time bad mouthing Shockwaves. I have seen the same expansion as you showed in the pictures and I have killed what I have shot at. With proper shot placement the animal you shoot will go down. I think most "bad" shots with ANY bullet will not put the animal down.

cayugad

Great report.. I have wondered a lot about the shockwave because of some of the reports you read.

bornagainhunter

The shock waves look alot like the hornady sst-ml bullets and as I just posted I hit a doe about 65 -75 yards away with 100 grains of pyro pellets and a 250 grain bullet. It went straight through the rib cage and made a hole about the size of a fifty cent piece gone in and slightly bigger exit hole. This tells me it expanded and stayed together.

spaniel

They are the same bullet actually, all manufactured by Hornaday but as SW by T/C with a different colored tip.

oldsmellhound

Thanks for the report. This has been a much-discussed topic for sure. I wonder, are there large differences between the types of SST/Shockwaves? For example, you and some other people have had very good luck with and speak highly of the .40 cal 200 grainers. However, most of the posts I've seen complaining about lack of expansion, lack of blood trails, etc. are about the .45 cal bullets, either 250 or 300 grain. I wonder if the bullets are made differently or are structurally different in some way. It would be interesting to find out...

spaniel

I do not want to over-generalize so I will say that potentially, yes. To draw an analogy if you look at long range hunting forums the .308 vs .338 Sierra Matchkings have significantly different reputations when used on game.

I would say some of this stems from the fact that I bet the 250gr SW is used in the field 5 times as much as the 200gr...at least. Most people that I know that use SWs use the 250gr version because that is more similar in weight to the other options they are used to using (240-250gr is a VERY popular size range!). So you are going to hear more reports on them, good or bad.

I have not personally used the 250, neither of my guns would take them and at the time I don't believe the alternative sabots were available yet (at least I did not know about them so I fell in love with the 200gr instead). However, I have lots of acquaintances, good hunters and good shooters, that use the 250gr with much success. Once of them had a single instance where he double-lunged a doe at close range and she stayed on her feet quite a bit longer than he thought she would. But I had the same thing happen with a 300gr soft lead Keith Nose hollowpoint that practically took the lungs out the other side so I don't draw conclusions on either bullet off one animal!

I would be very interested in actual reports with some pictures on these failures of the 250gr. Were the bullets recovered non-expanded (I know that's asking a lot but if they really don't expand there should be some frontal non-exits or soemthing)? Was the animal recovered and it confirmed that the bullet "penciled through" with no evidence of expansion or was it an assumption as the deer ran off and the actual location of the hit never confirmed?

Sometimes I wonder if people's expectations of theentrance/exit woundsare not exaggerated. I don't get 2 inch exit wounds with the 200gr SW. It's certainly larger than the entrance hole (often hidden under the fur) but the internal damage, what really counts and caused in energy transfer not just bullet diameter, is what is more impressive. The only time I get really big exits is on those shoulder shots where the bullet islike .7-.9 inchacross when it exits.

Gotbuck

Iuse them all the time and everthing I hit goes down without tracking no questions asked. I use the bonded type and all have been pass thrus.Those that claim these bullets are crap need to look at shot placement on the animal.