Chap

The length of the shaft will depend on which weight bullet it is - ie the 300 grain will have a longer shaft than the 250 and the 250 will have a longer shaft than the 200 grain.

That is why I indicated to you that those 250's that Semisane posted were expanded to the max leaving less shaft than the 300 grain.

sabotloader,

I like the thought of using the 300 grain bullet because it will get the penetration for an exit hole; trajectory is not much more than the 250 grainers and carriesthe energy out to 125 yards a bit better. The problem I have with these 50 caliber flintlocks(Late season in PA is flintlock only)with the fast twist barrels is they shoot the sabots with enough accuracy and energy for shots out to 125 yards but the velocity of real black powder is not enough to expand the pistol bullets out that far. The regular xtp 300 grainers are supposed to open up well at the 1200 f.p.s or soI hit that deer with but I saw little evidence of good expansion. I like the results that Chap got with his flinter and the 300 grain Gold dots and he was pushing them about the same speed I get with 100 grains of 2f; so I think I need to get some and see how they do.I gotta have the exit and some blood trail if there is no snow were I hunt.

I have looked for far to many deer that don't leave a decent blood trail when shot with a roundball. I like hunting with them but believe me when I tell you that I don't shoot beyond 60 yards with a .50 caliber roundball anymore and I hit mine right below the ear with em now and it takes em out quick. Most of my hunting buds still use them and the results on even well hit deer beyond 60 yards or so can be a crap shoot. Some down right now and some go for long distance with little blood. If there is no snow it can mean a lot of work and wasted hunting time for the others in the group. My first deer with the saboted set-up was bang flop and it shows great promise but bullet selection is going to be the key.

Mossie

I gues I am wondering exactly which Hornady 300XTP you were actually using? Knowing that might explain some of what happened...

In theory, and probably true, the heavier bullet should penetrate more, but in fact that is detirmined by expansion and the substance(animal) that you shoot the bullet in.

As Chap says the 300 GD's have a longer shaft hanging out from under the mushroom and it will drive through farther if it and the 250 a fired at the same velocity. The 250 makes up for some of this penetration by the fact it is shot with a greater velocity - 1860fps (300 grain 1775)..

I am not going there because I do not have the PRB experiance but I would highly suspect what you indicate to be true.

I wish I could show you a pic of a 250 or a 300 hit with the resulting blood trail but all I have are hits by a .451/260 grain Nosler. BUT - I would expect the same results from either of the God Dots. This shot was on a small toe whitetail @ 170+ yards. I was down hill and quartering to me. The shot sent him straight into the air with all four feet... then his flight response took over - he made it about 30 feet. The bullet entered the chest cavity a little lower than I planned and came out behind the left front shoulder... now the impressive part for me... everything in the chest cavity was dark red jello... I may have it a good portion of the heart but there is no way i hit every organ in there. When I got him opened up - there was nothing but jello in the chest cavity... Blood trail no problem - there was all kinds of blood at the hit site and all the way to drop site... even at the drop site there was blood splatter (new term for me from the CSI shows I watch) all around the area.... he was really spraying blood. This is pretty much how I found him...

Sabotloader,

The deer that I took was with the .452 300 grain standard xtp--not the mag version. Goex 2f will only push it around 1500 at the muzzle and at 100 yards it would be going a little under 1200. Black powder must be used in a flinter so that's about all I can get for a 300 grainer; a 250 grainer would only be going about 1600 at the muzzle. Chaps bullet looks really good from his flinter. I am just hoping the the Gold dots are not even harder to expand at the speeds I can get with real black powder. I must say Chap's bullet is just the thing I am looking to achive. As usual; the best way to find out is try it for myself and see. I also believe I could get maybe another 100 f.p.s. with Swiss Brand 3f powder. I only have one tag for this year so it's either going to be the 250 Gold dot or the 300. Thanks for the replies and I post pic's of my results.

Mossie

If you could look at the construction of 250 GD - you would see that it will open - The hollow point is so deep and so wide - if it fills with anything liquid even with minimal velocity it will expand... + we aready knowChap got his 300 grainer to expand from a FL....

Just a thought if you want more velocity with real BP? - can you get ahold of some Swiss BP? That will punch your bullets out there in a hurry...

How long til your season opens?

Our season opens the day after Christmas so there is plenty of time to get my Gold Dots and I think I can get some Swiss powder from a local gunstore. I have always used Goex but Swiss is supposed to give another 100-170 f.p.s. from the same charge load. My guns max. is 120 grains of 2f and 110 grains of 3f. I would not push it beyond that.

I took the load velocities and ran them through the Hornday's website ballistic calculator and another 150 f.p.s. really makes a difference in energy at 100 yards when you consider the difference between 1500 and 1650 f.p.s. A duplexed load of 777 would probably light off as well but I prefer to stay with real black. The 300 grain bullet really provides the best ballistics at these speeds on paper and as I have said; it worked well for Chap. Thanks for all the information on the Gold Dots. This really has been a great thread. I am leaning toward the 300 grain for this season but I intend to buy a box of 250's as well. I only hope they produce the accuracy that the Hornady's do. I can get under 2" most days at 100 with them although the Gold Dot's should be able to keep em under 3" or so with no problem. Plenty good enough for me.

Mossie

I would bet that it will quite a bit more than 100-170 FPS... In fact if you load up 100 grains of 2f - I would bet you will be shooting a 250 close to 1800fps and a 300 near 1700.

I have no personal experiance with Swiss other than what Cdad has told me and information I have read on the net - so only you will know for sure... but I'll bet - it will exceed you estimates...

Here check this out....

SL
Yes I see that, I think both will do the job, the 250g appear to me to open faster, which is better in a low energy FL, but I like the 300g for penetration. That is just me however. I sight in 50 yards andkeep my shots to no more than 70 yards with the FL and open sights.
Thanks for all the pictures of the GD, I think a lot of folks are learning a lot, about expansion, penetration and fragmentation in different bullets. Very good.
Chap

Yep, I think I need to try some of that Swiss 2f out. That's just the speed I am looking for out of this fast twist flinter. Don't need or want anymore than that. 1700 and a 300 grainer will work just right. Thanks for the chart as well sabotloader.

This very active thread hascovered PRB, Nosler Partition, PB,Hornady XTP, Speer Gold Dots and Barnes on this thread. Anybody got any recovered 250 or 300g SW or Hornady SSTs? Lets take a look at them? To start the discussion, please look at this thread in PDF format:

http://www.the-gleasons.com/Parker%20BE%20TC%20SW%20shot%20into%20ballistic%20 gel.pdf

on the ModernMuzzleloader forum. Here is the picture of a 250g SW. What do ya think? Why?

Chap Gleason