Dave, I think your memory is correct.

sabotloader, get back to the dishes or your gunna experience the punishment of Terry's speed AND downrange energy.

I can handle a 425gr Hornady Great Plains and 100gr FFG Goex just fine. I have been shooting my dads 7mm since I was 10 or 11yrs old. I think the 7mm kicks a lot harder. I have never really been recoil sensative. A guy told me that you have to back your charge way down when shooing heavy conicals. I was just wanting to try some heavier loads but thought I would first ask if it is safe. I think 100gr FFG is perfect and I love that load but I would like to try some heavier charges just for the heck of it.

This brings up another question. Will a 26" barrel burn 120gr FFG?

Yes it will. Good luck shooting.

You guys have good memories, Those targets were shot with 110
grains of T7 with a 460 bullshop ,Range was 200 yards.
The small 4 shot group was with a White U-M.
The top 3 were shot with an Omega with 348 powerbelts AT
115 grains of T7.
Rifles were sighted in at 118 yards with a peep sight.
Drop at 200 was 20".

I agree speed kills but that is not an option in some states.

I don't feel any load I ever shot out of a White had any recoil to speak of.
The 300 Weatherby that I have thumps you a heck of a lot more.

I have a .410 White that I got from UC, that little thing does not kick at all almost to the point of feeling under gunned at whitetails,I know its not
tho.

I would go up a little more (120 grains)in the White if it would not lose accuracy,now mind you this is at elk and maybe next year at moose ,no reason to shoot scrawny deer with this heavy of a load unless you want to do what Caugad does and shoot a couple with one shot
RC

Redclub

I agree with you here, in Idaho, the option has been taken away during regular ML season, but we can still go the other way during regular rifle season or short range season. The new ruling is why I am trying to learns the in's&out's of shooting conicals in a side hammer.

I do not know why but I thought you were in Washington, and at least in Washington you can shoot sabots, the bullets need to be all lead, but the are some really nice all lead bullets for sabotsavaialble out there.

Totally agree here, I have really never felt the recoil from a ML that my 300 mag applies and it doesn not even hold a candle to a 3 1/2" Federal Turkey load from a Remington 870...

Shooting with Cdad, I think he is in the same mind frame, he loads his U-Mag way up drops ones those big conicals in and will shoot for several hours and not think a thing about it. He is oblivious to recoil.

Personally, I do not know if anything above 100 grains is necessary for elk or Moose, the key is, other than shot placement, is penetration of the thick skin, and the bullet still have enough shape to possibly crush and penetrate a shoulder bone, after that it can open up and do what ever a good bullet does. 120 grains might provide better trajectory which would be and added benefit, but might it also might cause the pure soft lead bullet to break up in difficult situations - just speculating do not know for sure although that was one of the reasons that wrapping a lead bullet in copper was invented. The hunters shooting dangerous game in Africa wanted the improvement. You couldn't shoot them to fast and have them stay together.

And just thinking, isn't this the knock on PowerBelts? They seem to blow up with some regularity with those high velocity charges...

The reason powerbelts break up is because they are hollow points
with a plastic tip plus they are a lot lighter. I haven't shot a lot of game
with heavy conicals but the ones I have the bullets really stay together,They are kinda flattened a little. Conicals are shot about 500 ft. slower than sabots.

Sabots definetly shoot a lot flatter than conicals. I shoot Barnes originals out of a Savage ,300 grain/458 dia. over 60 grains of vv120 and that is one heck of a long range shooter. But I like to shoot conicals its more fun.
Redclub

Ive shot 225 grain aerotips through over a foot of log and found them all in once piece. Some have luck with them, some dont. Just a personal choice wheather you want to use them or not.

Redclub

What do you feel is your velocity with the load you have mentioned? Using a 300 grain bullet and 110 grains of T7, I am reaching1750/1800 fps and because of the lighter bullet getting really decent ballistics. With Dan's the 460's and 90 grains it only drops down to 1500 fps but the ballistic down range suffer greatly (other than energy).

Gotta agree there - they are really fun for me because they are new to me and I just like shooting... and it fits into the old BP saying "make abig hole" but again personally I like the little hole and a dead animal - I really want the bullet to do the damage on the inside not that much going in or coming out....

I really do not know the reason they break up but they certainly can and have on many occasions. I have shot a lot of them at paper, clay pigeons, and rocks - they are accurate, i will say that, but I have seen to may break up. I shoot a lot of Gold Dots, Noslers, and XTP's all with hollow points, and really have not got that break up. On a shooting trip years ago to the rock pit I think I proved to myself the difference, when I got bored of shooting paper - I decided to shoot some of the basalt pit run rocks lieing on the floor of the pit. The PB's certainly hit the rock and made an impressive puff of grey/white smoke, but they disenegrated - could find anything other than little bits of lead not even bb size... then turn arond and shoot the same rock with an XTP and most often you would find the jacket with a little lead left but at least it held together. With the Nosler's - now that was impressive - they were rock crushers... Now I know shooting basalt is not anything like shooting an animal, but in my mind I do know what is the stronger bullet. You know since I just started shooting conicals - I have not conducted that same rock experiment with them - gotta do that... With the heavy conicals my GUESS would be they will break the rock but they will go puff also, will not find much lead in any significant sizes... just a guess.

Hey Mike,

When I go hunting for the basalt deer statues in the Broadmoor's lawn, I'll be sure to take along some Noslers so that they will pass through.

So tell us your deer or elk story. What PB blew up on an animal?

No disrespect intended, but I trust the guys, (was itin SouthDakota?)who have killed 120+ in the past 5 years without one failing to pass through and with no lost deer. And I trust viking421a. Its not that I don't trust you,it just thatyou admit that you have only started shooting conicals and don't seem to have any hunting experience with them, and so their experience, among many others, carry alot more weight with me.

Basalt is pretty hard stuff, Other than diamonds, I don't know what is harder. Certainly is alot harder than Steel. And steel is much harder than Calcium Carbonate, you know the stuff Bones are made of. And bones are mostly hollow and crush pretty easily actually. Was watching a show on tv about this woman stabbed her husband to death. Evidence showed that every time she struck bone with the tip of the knife she pierced right through. Both ribs and scapula. Pretty amazing, because here, people compare bones to rocks.

Here is what I a sure of. People who have trouble downing deer, usually do so consistently. Like some of the people who consistently lost deer with powerbelts. Some aren't very good shots, others take shots beyond their skill, and then others "maverick" their shots. A deer is quartered towards them and they shoot the facing shoulder. What a terrible thing to do. Cause the path isn't going to take both lungs. Also, a scapula is a large flat bone capable of deflecting any bullet if the bullet hits it in a glancing angle. This explains all the blood and hair and why the deer didn't go down and was lost.

Personal responsibility, even honesty, is getting harder to find these days and its just so easy to blame a bullet for lack of skill, lack of preparation, and out and out bad decision making.