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totally lost

Old 02-24-2007, 11:05 AM
  #1  
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Default totally lost

I've been reading these posts since Nov. trying to put together information fora purchase. I have been rifle hunting but would really enjoy being there earlier in the rut. CO as I understand isa non-sabot, no pellet powder, no scope. After reading these posts, I was considering the omega though that is not set in stone. I don't have a clue which type of power to purchase, which projectile, if it says no sabots - is that only a round ball and patch or can you use a powerbelt. I reside in Iowa and would also consider deer hunting with it. I am not impressed with the group hunts and shotgunning method my fine stateengages in.
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Old 02-24-2007, 11:19 AM
  #2  
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Default RE: totally lost

timwlarsen

CO as I understand isa non-sabot, no pellet powder, no scope. After reading these posts, I was considering the omega though that is not set in stone. I don't have a clue which type of power to purchase, which projectile, if it says no sabots - is that only a round ball and patch or can you use a powerbelt. I reside in Iowa and would also consider deer hunting with it. I am not impressed with the group hunts and shotgunning method my fine stateengages in.
I own an Omega and love it - it shoots great.... but.... if I were in Colorado - I probably would find a different gun to hunt with... It is not noted for it's ability to shoot conicals, although it will shoot Powerbelts just fine, except I have a mental block against them...

The best gun probably for what you are proposing is a White, except they are very hard to find anymore, the second best gun in my mind would be an old Remington model 700ml, you can still find them around and they will shoot everything. And really the best gun might be a an older Knight of some kind - do not own any Knights but someone like Wolfhound on here is a Knight expert could really fill you in better.

For me the White and the Remington fill the big bill, both have all three ignitions systems can shoot conicals, sabots, and PB's equally well. You can adapt them to be leagal in any state but Idaho.

Good luck in your search - there will be a lot of other opinions and suggestions... I just happened to get here first or second....
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Old 02-24-2007, 11:21 AM
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Default RE: totally lost

My understanding is a powerbelt is a conical and legal in Colorado. Correct me someone if I am wrong. Also you need to consider maxiball, and some of the other conicals out there as possible projectiles to use.

As for the kind of rifle to purchase, you need to consider what you want the rifle to do. If you could find one, and wanted a true conical shooter, a White would be my choice. The problem with White Rifles are they are getting hard to find because the company is out of business one day, and planning to start again the next day.

Now whether Omega shooters have luck shooting conicals I could not say. I've read posts of them being very good powerbelt shooters. I have a Black Diamond XR that shoots conicals real well. But that does not mean the next Black Diamond will do the same. The Omega might be an excellent choice.

There are some other choices out there, but they are not the modern inline kind of rifle. For instance the Lyman Great Plains Hunter with a 1:32 twist is a known conical shooter. Since Colorado requires no scope as I understand, you would be just as well off with that rifle as a modern inline. Shoot some Pyrodex RS or P and a big Maxiball and it should take out an elk just fine. It will also work on deer back in Iowa.

So come on people that shoot conicals.. what rifle do you suggest for timwlarsen. My vote would be a White, or an Omega if he wanted an inline rifle. A Great Plains Hunter if he wanted a traditional shooter.
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Old 02-24-2007, 12:29 PM
  #4  
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Default RE: totally lost

Does not CO require an open ignition system and a pivioting hammer?
I am not to sure about pivoting hammer that to me sounds like a side lock?
As for projectiles I would try working with the Sabor Tooth,when I compared the to the PB in my own private testing the accuracy was the same over all but they penatrated much better. Lee
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Old 02-24-2007, 12:40 PM
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Default RE: totally lost

What kind of range are you planning on shooting up to? I feel comfortable with 150 yard open sight shots, its needed where i hunt, open plain with some rolling hills and sage brush. i hunt unit 35 in colorado so if you've been in that area, you know how open it is.

No scopes,pellet powder or sabots.

You can shoot any conical you want, if it will shoot with the gun you pick out. I like the 350 grain TC maxi hunters and the 385 grain great plains bullets. Also like powerbelts i just dont have the money to shoot them all of the time. If you're going after elk, a 348 grain powerbelt will do the job. for deer i normally use the 295 grain powerbelt.

As for the muzzleloader, Its like sabotloader said, the omega and encore are not normally known for shooting conicals. You can even give TC a call and they will say its normally a sabot rifle. With so many choices out there, its hard to tell you exactly what you need, you'll have to go to some sporting good stores and handle as many as you can and keep a mental note on which rifle you liked the best and then report back to us for our opinion and if its a good one or if its a bad one.

I shoot a winchester x-150 .50 muzzleloader and its accuracy is excellent and the quality is solid. Either this one or even the CVA optima would be great choices to shoot conical. If you only hunt deer in colorado, a 45 caliber would suit your needs perfectly and i know where you can buy an x-150 Brand new for $160 with ss barrel and camo stock. 160 shipped! If you hunt elk in colorado it must be a .50 or larger so thats the only downfall if you go with a .45 and then want to go for elk.


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Old 02-24-2007, 12:58 PM
  #6  
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Default RE: totally lost

ORIGINAL: timwlarsen

I've been reading these posts since Nov. trying to put together information fora purchase. I have been rifle hunting but would really enjoy being there earlier in the rut. CO as I understand isa non-sabot, no pellet powder, no scope. After reading these posts, I was considering the omega though that is not set in stone. I don't have a clue which type of power to purchase, which projectile, if it says no sabots - is that only a round ball and patch or can you use a powerbelt. I reside in Iowa and would also consider deer hunting with it. I am not impressed with the group hunts and shotgunning method my fine stateengages in.
During ML season, just about any muzzleloader brand or model is allowed. The exceptions are the Savage 10ML II(or any ML which is designed for use with smokeless powder), which you CAN NOT hunt with during the regular MUZZLELOADER season even if its loaded with black powder.

During ML season, just about any ignition system is allowed, EXCEPT, one can't use the little 25 ACP cartridge and BP. Only 209, percussion cap, or flints allowed.

During ML season, thanks to some modification last year, ANY blackpowder substitute is legal. Just has to be a powder that is designed for use in blackpowder weapons. Of course, blackpowder is A-OK.

Projectiles must be full bore conical less than 2X length or PRB. During RIFLE SEASON, I am told that any projectile which is legal for use in a centerfire, is also legal as asaboted projectile in a muzzleloader.

I would recommend a .50 cal. I'll let you decide which brand and model. Regarding the omega,while there is no guaranty that it will shoot conicals, there is no guaranty that it won't shootthem either. Some reportgood results. If this is your first rifle, I'd be sure to choose the one which you feel would best function for its primary use. If its Colorado during ML season, it needs to shoot conicals. If its Colorado during rifle, it needs to shoot either conicals or sabots well, or shoot them both. A rifle which functions well for Colorado rifle season, of course, functions in Iowa very well.

Good luck with it. I hope you do go to Colorado for some hunting. There is a sense of wildness and openness that is hard to beat. If you are getting burned out on theshotgun drives, I guarantee a muzzleloader and 20,000 acres of BLM will cure you.
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Old 02-24-2007, 01:29 PM
  #7  
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Default RE: totally lost

Thank you so much. Sounds like I would have purchased not the best choice. I have been huntingthe flat tops - 10700'with dense spruce,small 200 yd openings. I will see if I can't get out to handle some of the mentioned and clerk recommended, andthen see what you guys think.
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Old 02-24-2007, 03:38 PM
  #8  
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Default RE: totally lost

"During ML season, just about any ignition system is allowed, EXCEPT, one can't use the little 25 ACP cartridge and BP. Only 209, percussion cap, or flints allowed. "

Where are you reading this? I know guys who use the 25 ACP conversion primers, and know of no problems using them??

"Does not CO require an open ignition system and a pivioting hammer?"

No, this is not correct, Omegas have a closed / weatherproofignitionand they are legal.

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Old 02-24-2007, 04:26 PM
  #9  
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Default RE: totally lost

Colorado
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Old 02-24-2007, 04:44 PM
  #10  
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Default RE: totally lost

I have and do hunt CO. during the ML season and I have hunted the flattops for many years.
The Omega will shoot 348 powerbelts just fine and will kill elk but they are not a white which imo is a really great conical shooter. Put in a 460 grain conical over a 1oo grains of T7 and you will take any elk out there.
I believe the powerbelt will take elk very effectively with a good hit. I would be concerned with a shoulder shot tho,not the greatest penetration.
The 460 conical will put them down any place a centerfire rifle will
I seen the results first hand on both and these are my opinions.
THe Omega is a fine rifle for a beginner.
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