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Where is it headed (not to start an argument)

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Where is it headed (not to start an argument)

Old 02-27-2006, 09:24 PM
  #1  
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Default Where is it headed (not to start an argument)

Have any of you guys wondered where muzzleloading is headed? I mean for me I have been a long time hunter, Mostly rifle and recurve but last year I wanted to get into muzzleloading.

So I bought a Traditions Pursuit LT and it was a good muzzleloader. Which I decided to sell only a few mths after I got it because I wanted something a little more traditional like a t/c hawkens.

Anyways what I am trying to get is when it comes to modern muzzleloaders the range of them keeps increasing and to me it seems that if I wanted to hunt with something can take down a deer out to 200-250yrds I would use my rifle. When I think of going hunting with a muzzleloader I think of getting close not as close as hunting with a bow but within 75yrdsand less at most 100yrds with open sights andwearing my buckskins and coyote fur hat and charcol on my face.

Please remember that I am not trying to pi$$ anyone of or offend anybody, I was just curious what everyones views are.
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Old 02-27-2006, 09:44 PM
  #2  
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Default RE: Where is it headed (not to start an argument)

Original: Snowman69

Paraphrase: "where is muzzloading headed"
I think, pretty much where we want it to. Our demand drives the supply.

Happy Hunting, Phil
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Old 02-27-2006, 09:57 PM
  #3  
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Default RE: Where is it headed (not to start an argument)

ORIGINAL: snowman69

Anyways what I am trying to get is when it comes to modern muzzleloaders the range of them keeps increasing and to me it seems that if I wanted to hunt with something can take down a deer out to 200-250yrds I would use my rifle. When I think of going hunting with a muzzleloader I think of getting close not as close as hunting with a bow but within 75yrdsand less at most 100yrds with open sights andwearing my buckskins and coyote fur hat and charcol on my face.

Please remember that I am not trying to pi$$ anyone of or offend anybody, I was just curious what everyones views are.
While I understand and can even commend your position of wanting to do things the old way, with the older technology of the cap or flintlock rifles, there is nothing wrong with another person wanting to use the more modern technology. This is a personal decision only the hunter can make in accordance to the laws of the State.

If the State feels that inline rifles should be allowed, they do so. If they want sabots allowed, they permit those projectiles as well. Many States restrict caliber requirements andfor instance do not allow optics. It is up to the State to set the requirements of what is considered a legal muzzleloader. What it all boils down to is, even the inline rifles are muzzleloaders still.

I think you will see many States (and some already are) restrict certain muzzleloaders, projectiles, and powdersfrom the playing field if you may. My attitude is, if it is legal in the State, then the hunter has to make their own choice of which weapon best suits their needs.

Personally I have no desire to put on buckskins and charcoal my face to hunt like my forefathers although I can see the appeal. If today I want to shoot and hunt with an inline rifle, then I carry that. If instead I want a cap or flintlock, I arm myself with that. You could even see me in the woods with a smoothbore rifle. All of them are legal in my State. Still, I would never criticize or think less of someone who joins me in the huntand who carries a Omega for instance or a LT Pursuit. I am not out there competing with the next guyor trying to convince someone that I am a superior hunter because I use older technology. I am only being me, and doing what brings me the greatest enjoyment.
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Old 02-27-2006, 10:02 PM
  #4  
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Default RE: Where is it headed (not to start an argument)

snowman69

You know for me and i do use inlines during the regular rifle season and sidelocks during the ML season... to me anyway it is the challenge... even with a modern ML it does not come close to matching the performance of my 270 or 300 win mag.

The challenge... the variables that i have to factor in to make the shots I need to make. Taking a 200 even 300 yard shot with a modern rifle is not a problem - any 200 yard shot with a ML is filled with variables - can I beat the variables? that is the question.

It is my contention even the most modern ML, excluding the smokeless Savage and the monster ml's, are really no more potent than a 308 in most instances.

Another contention, I think?, hunting the west is a lot different than hunting in the east... I really envy you guys with the number of tags you can get an the length of your seasons. Your tree houses and your food plots. Here we are hunting at 5,000 ft in the mountains with all the up/down drafts - swirling winds - just makes the challenge greater. I remember when I was younger hunting on the river breaks - 200 yard shots across the canyon at a muley was the norm - not the exception. ML's can not match that performance. 3000 fps second shots are common... I do not think we are there yet with ML's

Hunting like our fore-fathers did really doesn't exist in Idaho - the animals are way to scarce. The habitat has been severely changed by logging, man and enviromental damage... things are not the same.

now while I do use a modern inline with a modern projectile and I would not mind having a Savage - I just do not see myself using smokelss nor any of those big guns..

what do ya think???
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Old 02-27-2006, 10:57 PM
  #5  
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Default RE: Where is it headed (not to start an argument)

Where I hunt in Arizona scoped inlines are legal so I use my Omega with a scope. I put in for antlerless elk muzzleloader most of the time as it is the best chance of getting drawn. I am basically a meat hunter as I do not eat supermarket meat unless it is organic or certified free of all the crap they feed the feedlot animals. I still limit my shots to 100 yards or maybe 110 but most of the time I get shots at between 80 and 100 yards. I did not get drawn last year and my supply is getting low so I am hoping for a good draw this year. I also am envious of the posts I see where the guys back east shoot several deer a season. I have not been drawn for deer in over 10 years (Mule deer in the desert tend to be a bit gamey anyway). I much prefer Elk. I have several traditional rifles including one flintlock but when hunting I use the most efficient rifle that is legal.
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Old 02-28-2006, 06:16 AM
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Default RE: Where is it headed (not to start an argument)

ORIGINAL: snowman69

Have any of you guys wondered where muzzleloading is headed? I mean for me I have been a long time hunter, Mostly rifle and recurve but last year I wanted to get into muzzleloading.

So I bought a Traditions Pursuit LT and it was a good rifle sorry I mean muzzleloader. Which I decided to sell only a few mths after I got it because I wanted something a little more traditional like a t/c hawkens.

Anyways what I am trying to get is when it comes to modern muzzleloaders the range of them keeps increasing and to me it seems that if I wanted to hunt with something can take down a deer out to 200-250yrds I would use my rifle. When I think of going hunting with a muzzleloader I think of getting close not as close as hunting with a bow but within 75yrdsand less at most 100yrds with open sights andwearing my buckskins and coyote fur hat and charcol on my face.

Please remember that I am not trying to pi$$ anyone of or offend anybody, I was just curious what everyones views are.
I think muzzleloading firearm technology is about as far as it can go now. There may be minor improvements in the designs like what T/C did to the Encore (breechplug and such), but the actions availible are pretty well set (we may see minor variations).I do believe we'll see still cleaner burning powders and better designed muzzleloading bullets and sabots. It's possible that I'm wrong though, there may be a ways yet to go.
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Old 02-28-2006, 07:18 AM
  #7  
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Default RE: Where is it headed (not to start an argument)

Since nobody has said any thing about us elder people. I tend to think if we had to go back to open sights only seasons, many older hunters would give it up. I wouldbecauseI do not feel comfortable at making a clean killing shot on a deer at even 25 yards with open sights. Even glasses can not fix our older eye sight enough to shoot with comfadence.
I'll use what ever ML falls with in the laws of my state where I can mount a scope or peep sight on my rifle.
I personally think there is some major changes in actions to comein the future, better metals and higher charges of powder for longer ranges. The range wars are already an on going thing.
I myself wonder how a fully rifled barrel can be called a shot gun????????? This isn't to make any body mad either, just wondering.
Al


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Old 02-28-2006, 08:41 AM
  #8  
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Default RE: Where is it headed (not to start an argument)

alleyyooper

I myself wonder how a fully rifled barrel can be called a shot gun?????????
I did not realize they could. If there is rifling they are a rifle. The closest you might get to it is a rifled musket, but even that technically has a twist in the bore as I understand it. And I do not think they are recommend to shoot actual shot. They might be loaded with buck and ball though.

I hunt with a smoothbore rifle. A smoothbore rifle is technically a shotgun because there is no twist or riflingin the bore. It gets the name rifle because of the fact they put a rifled type sights on it instead of a bead on the end and making the shooter use the sight plain of the barrel.

I also understand your concern over the use of optics. We are not allowed any magnification on our rifles during muzzle loader season. One of my rifles has a red dot but I feel comfortable with that to about 75 yards. Another has a peep sight which is a great aiming device out to 100 yards. The fiber optics make sighting also much easier but the plain of flat wide front sight I admit does give me some problems at long distances.
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Old 02-28-2006, 10:11 AM
  #9  
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Default RE: Where is it headed (not to start an argument)

I threw the shot gun comment in because it has always baffled me asbeing legal in Southern Michigan's zone one where the use of center fire rifles are not allowed during fire arm deer season.
The bolt acton fully rifled shot gun is very popular as id the (?)HR model break open models.

Al
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Old 02-28-2006, 10:29 AM
  #10  
Typical Buck
 
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Default RE: Where is it headed (not to start an argument)

ORIGINAL: alleyyooper

Since nobody has said any thing about us elder people. I tend to think if we had to go back to open sights only seasons, many older hunters would give it up. I wouldbecauseI do not feel comfortable at making a clean killing shot on a deer at even 25 yards with open sights. Even glasses can not fix our older eye sight enough to shoot with comfadence.
I'll use what ever ML falls with in the laws of my state where I can mount a scope or peep sight on my rifle.

I agree since I am 67 and my right eye has a blind spot right on the focal point. I can use a scope as the crosshairs help me to find the center but with standard iron sights the front sight is a blur. I have tried peep sights and they make it almost possible to shoot with confidence but the scope really makes my shots solid. Lucky for me Arizona allows scopes. I still limit my shots to about 100 yards. Personally I don't shoot farther than that enough to be sure of a kill so I don't do it. I know the Omega would likely do a good job at close to 200 yards but the kill zone at that range is getting pretty small.

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