elknut1

"i can't see how i guide earns his take for a week of hunting?"

Now there's a crazy statement!!!! I've never been guided myself, but can see the true benefits in the use of one, that's for sure!! I'm not just talking about private lands, ranches or LE Units either. Guys or gals who aren't experienced in elk hunting, especially bowhunting elk can use all the coaching and help they can get.

Elk are a tough animal to harvest, and there's many ways to look at it. The animal itself, the country it lives in, the sounds it makes, and so on. If you don't have a decent handle on all these you're going to be going home with tag-soup in most years of hunting them. Sure it's great just to be out there, but most have a purpose once there.

I've taken many people elk hunting, most have taken their first elk which I was privledged to call in for them. I can tell you for a fact in most cases these friends and family didn't have a clue on what to expect for such a hunt, even though they had been many times in the past with others or on their own.

Once they go out with someone who can truly help & educate them, it can make all the difference in the world to their enjoyment & successes!!

Example----Maybe you're a rifle hunter and a succesful one at that. but you'd like to give bowhunting elk a shot. --- I have a friend who was in this position, he'd taken 16 elk in a rowwith a rifle, all on public land and all bulls. He asked me to take him elk hunting and teach him a couple things about bowhunting them to better his odds as he'd been out a couple of times with no luck and was getting frustrated. I sayed sure.

After just one morning of elk hunting we were walking back to the truck, and he sayed to me that that was truly a learning experience what we had went through that morning, it was so different than rifle hunting that he felt like he knew nothing at all about elk like he thought he did.

So I can see guys interested in using guides, especially if you don't have 10years lying around going through all the trials & errors that are neccessary before you really start figuring out what makes them tick in Sept.

So for you guys using guides in this capacity, I say it's a very smart move!!!!--ElkNut1

huntnmuleys

elknut1, i agree with what your saying, but how do some guides justify what they charge for some hunts.

i have been checking into brown bear hunts in alaska for a couple years now (i know its a pipe dream, but its my pipe dream), and i cannot see where it is justified to charge me $15,000 for a week of hunting. thats a lot of cash for a back up gun, knowledgable local and a cook. a lot of sheep hunts, as well as polar bear are that way too. i realize the danger in the big bears, but $15000? things like that really keep the average guy from realizing a lot of his dreams, and although im sure id have a blast on these hunts, i am not sure i would feel i got a $15000 effort from my guide

just my thoughts

brad

Elkcrazy8

Manboy, the statement about using a guide is very interesting, espescially after reading the post on your bear hunt. I am not saying that people should use guides all the time. But Elknut brings up some great points. I would consider myself a very experienced hunter, and I am going with someone this fall in another state. Granted it is not a guide in the sense that I am paying him, but he is providing all the same so called services. A great way to keep the costs down on an out of state hunt, and maximize your chances of success, would be to swap hunts with other people. You can get a good feel for people on here after a while and then plan a hunt with them. Guiding is ALOT of work. I have never been paid for my services of taking elk hunters out, but have taken several out of staters hunting. There is much preparation to do. I have spent weeks scouting and packing in supplies to make sure that their hunt was enjoyable. Most guides are not the outfitter. They are paid meager salaries and usually room and board. The good guides who work their butts of for the clients will make their most money from the tips of hunters. Guides are not in their line of work because of the money, I can guarantee you that, they are in it because of their love for the outdoors. I looked into guiding and was all lined out for school. I was not able to do it because I would not have made enough to support the family. Just because a guide is hired doesn't mean that the animal is a guarentee either. The client still needs to possess the skills to get the job done. Fortunatly with the 6 guys that I have taken hunting over the past 4 years. Only one guy took a tag home, and that was because he chose to let down on a smaller bull at 5 yards and wait for a bigger. I am doing a swap this year and can't wait. Because of a successful elk hunt a couple of years ago, I have an open invitation to hunt Alaska as soon as I can get the money saved. The only cost will be transprtation to Alaska, money for the float plane, and tags.

As far as horses and ATV's. My opinion still stands. I don't have to feed my boots or change their oil.

huntnmuleys, 15,000 is alot of cash. You have to look at another side of the hunt. Brown bears are not as common as deer and elk. There would be alot more people chasing their dreams as you are if the price was cheaper. How many bears would be left if everyone could get one at 1,000 a pop. The outfitters have alot of extra costs that they need to cover also. The underlying prices are guides lisc., insurance, transportation, area permits, supplies, payroll, equipment upkeep etc. etc. Not only that they have to turn a profit to stay in business. Lets say this outfit takes out 10 hunters. That is 150,000 dollars. After paying all the fees and costs that are incured, they still have to make a living in the end. So I don't think that they may be too far out of line considering the dangers of hunting brownies and all the underlying costs that they have to pay.

rick_reno

In my experience, horses do not spook game the way an ATV does.

manboy

so elkcrazy= u are saying that it is o.k. that a brownie outfitter makes a living on 10 hunters a year? and u are o.k. with that? i sure will not cough up 1/2 of my 50+ hours work week of 50 weeks a year for that! i would work 1250 hours to pay for a 7-10 day hunt? i don't see how that is in anyway o.k. with me!

p.s. and i don't the wife or my 3 kids would go for that!

and i guess i did not make myself clear on the atv/horse thing! i do know that a horse is more work than an atv, but if u ride a horse to the top of a hill or a atv, u are still not using your own power to hunt! there is alot of poeple who say they are a great hunter on this sight. and they say big stories, and then mention i rode HORSE BACK for 8 miles to the base camp! thats fine but u are no better than i, who rode a atv 3 miles to camp!

charlie brown

Are you just trying to start trouble, or am I actually believing that you are speaking your mind as you see it??

Ok, so that extra 5 miles the guy on the horse rode PAST you on your ATV in the WILDERNESS area, where you couldn't take your ATV means that he is more lazy than you???? If I calculate correctly, he just passed probably 95% or more of the hunters, including you, to get to where he will probably see more game, and where a lot of the game pushed by people on ATV's will be pushed!!! That 8 mile ride on horseback to BASE CAMP gives him up to 5 miles or more in every direction to WALK and HUNT everyday without seeing another single person!! I challenge you to go after elk this fall. Get a general tag there in Wyoming. Backpack in 8 miles, no ATV, no HORSE, set up camp for 5 days, hunting in all directions during your stay, kill a large bull, and then PACK it out on your BACK BY YOURSELF!!! You would have to make AT LEAST 4 round trips, including the trip in, probably somewhere around 6 trips. So you are talking walking 6 trips of 16 miles each, that comes to 96 miles of walking, 32 of that being with a full load of elk meat on your back (4 trips), at about 80 lbs each, because remember, you have to bring it all out, the head, antlers, and ALL of the meat!!! I can almost guarentee by the time you get that far back into the wilderness, you won't be able to pack out every piece of meat before it starts to go bad!!! The guy on the horse can hunt all those 5 days, get an elk, put it all on his horse, and walk out in one trip!!! 16 miles total. I am sorry, but I call that a smarter hunter!!!

Elkcrazy8 - I too hunt from my feet, but only hike a couple of miles each day, from a camp where I can drive to, and usually have help to get an animal out.

Cost of Piper Super Cub - $80,000 used the latest I am seeing.
Cost of guide license, insurance, CPR certs, etc - $5000 or more depending on the location (this is just an estimate, not sure of exact cost)
Cost of GOOD gear EVERY year to keep a good camp, and keep your clients - $10,000 - or MORE!!!
Cost of food, and other expendibles, for 2 guides, 1 hunter, and assistant, for 1 week - $1000
Cost of fuel - 300 mile round trip in the Piper - $400 ++ depending on exactly how much weight for each trip, etc.

This is just the cost of the HUNT itself. Nevermind the expertise a non-resident hunter is getting from a guide who has been in an area for so many years, hunting these dangerous bears. Nevermind the wages you are paying for each guide, so he can go home and pay his mortgage, and buy food for his family. Never mind all of the other little logistical costs that are needed for setting up a brown bear hunt. All of a sudden, $12,000 a hunt for 10 hunters, or $120,000 doesn't seem like a whole lot of money to be split between 4 people, all the gear, maintnence, and expendable items!!

huntnmuleys

charlie brown i see what your saying on the brown bear breakdown, but the underlying problem here is the typical guy (me) cant afford this type of hunt.....possibly ever! i realize there are a lot of costs involved, but most of these guys take 10-15 hunters twice a year, spring and fall. now your looking at upwards of a quarter of a million dollars for the four people to split.....plus this only takes up 2-4 months of their year. sounds like there making a lot of money to me. plus im a bit skeptical of your $10,000 total for gear every year...i doubt they go through that much every year.

im just playing devil's advocate here, but this type of thing is pricing a lot of people out. i just found an outfitter that is running an 'affordable" brown bear hunt next year, at $4995. for this price you get 2 on 1 guide service. you bring your own food and do your own cooking...i think you bring your tent and things too. i am seriously looking at doing this. i may be able to come up with it in a year or two.

and it isnt just bear hunts....sheep have those costs too. personally though, i think a sheep hunt would be 1000 times harder for a guide than a bear hunt. if anything i can see them being more expensive. but $15000????

just tough to swallow when ya see people go on these types of trips every year, and you realize that is half your sallary! too rich for my blood.

now if i can just win that lottery

brad

James B

As long as people will pay those prices then they will continue to be the same or go up even more. In today's economy there are a lot of hunters to whom price is no object whatsoever. There is a big gap today between the haves and have nots. I was a guide for about ten years and I sure never got rich at it. Costs have gone through the roof and like it or not I don't see things changing any time soon. I don't use ATV's at all and seldom use horses but I would if I was set up better to do so. Horses have been part of hunting forever. Now if someone would rather walk then beat his chest and claim he is a better or more ethical hunter let him kid himself and do so. Set your own standards and knock yourself out living up to them. Just leave the other guy alone and let him do the same.

txhunter58

"u put your lazy a$$ on something and let it do the work!"

Ok, I won't hold back: So what is your point??? That anyone that uses a horse, ATV, or a guide is a lazy a$$? Wow! You are such a macho guy! Please give us more of your profound wisdom!

I have a question. Do you ever have anything positive to add to any website that you visit? I have yet to see it.

Guys it is time to cut this guy loose. Every time we respond to him and let him stir up more sh.... it is just more "kicks" for him. Have never understood people like that.

Last question manboy. When will you be graduating from junior high? Grow up.

Bullkllr

Back to the original question...

I personally hate the sound and rapid movement of an atv, whether its on the same trail as me or two ridges over. Sort of ruins my whole "non-motorized" experience.

Never worried about hunters on foot (or horse feet). They blend in well with the natural setting that is a big reason I go into the woods!