justhuntitall

elknut 1
Does your videos have real hunts when you call up bulls?Thanks for the info Iam printing everything on this thread to use toward next years hunts.

gselkhunter
Again you and elknut have gave me alot of info that I will make good with.
I am a member of Rocky Mountain Foundation its kind of hard to here good callers this far east the closest Ive get to real elk in the off season is the next Primos tape( By the way I cant wait every year for the next Primos) but I know the consept of the set ups and how to work the bulls but this reading the bulls calls seems like it will take some times and alot of call practice.

Oh yeah realy I want one to scream in my face

elknut1

justhuntitall---The videos are purely instructional videos. There are no bowkills on them.

They cover everything imaginable when it comes to sounds made by both Bulls & Cows. They teach you what the sounds mean so you know exactly what the elk are saying. When you understand their language it's much easier to communicate with them. Too, you'll know how to respond effectively in more ways than you can imagine. The method I shared with you is on Vol-4. There are Vol-1-2 & 4 which all deal with hunting mainly bulls. There are lots of points on them as well for hunting cows too. The method gselkhunter mentioned is also on the videos as well, right down to cutting off a bull with a bugle of your own to piss him off, and much much more. How and when to hunt Wallows!

All the sounds are made on the videos so you can easily hear them and practice them.
Just to help you apprecieate their effectivness, they came out a year ago, so this was there first full hunting season out to the public. So far I have recieved emails & photos of 41 harvested elk, 37 bulls & 4 cows, not counting the 6 bulls we took this year out of our camp. Many hunters were first timers or newer hunters. I wish I knew for sure how many were really taken as some folks just don't take the time to write! Anyway I wanted to share this tidbit with you so you can see what an impact they could have on anyones hunt.

gselkhunter---I too find the right encounter at times to use the "buzz" bugle, (a competition sound) although it doesn't come out of the bag very often, the situation has to be right or else you'll turn the majority of public land bulls into "runners". As you know most herd bulls especially early on (first couple weeks) are small 5's and 6's, defenitely not the biggest bulls on the mountain. Because of that too big or aggressive and they're gone especially if you're outside 100yds. I've seen bulls tear on out of there and leave the cows behind because I was too big sounding. But there are times when you can't be too big either. Finding the right sound for a given situation is the key.

Too, I've challenged bulls many times over the years to the point of calling them every name in the book as I got between him & his cows, to calling their cows away, and there's still times they'll hang-up, when they do it in this situation the " Threat" has proved unbeatable. Anytime you're good enough to convince a bull you've brashly stolen a cow from him he will come unglued and won't stand for it. What I didn't mention earlier is the key to it's effectivness is the fact that the bull (me) is talking to the cow not the real bull, I'm not challenging the bull I'm trying to persuade the cow to come with me and I'm resorting to hook her with my horns and biting her viciously, hence the cow in distress sounds. The real bull knows this and gains confidence to come in, because of this other bulls sneaky approach. Depending on the method used it could be a cow he was trying to call to him or as far as he's concerned it could be one of his own that fed a little to far away from the herd, no matter, he'll be in your lap in seconds!! Man I'm getting excited just writting about it!!!! <grin> ElkNut1

gselkhunter

Elknut1, One of the worst things that happen, is when the bull isn't sure he is bad enough to fight and trys to sneak in from behind. I lose a few to scent every year. Or the cows come in fast with the bull on their heels and they wind me. Even with all the scent cover up stuff I use, human scent is still an issue. So it something the new hunters need to understand. You can do the perfect calling for that situation and still lose. And when I resort to a buzz it is the last resort because the bull is nervous and is going to leave me anyway. See when I called in all the bulls for my Step-son opening day this year the bigger I sounded the more action we got. A unique situation of course, but I had the tools in the bag and knew what to do with them. And that is the point to make to new hunters, don't be afraid to use everything if what you are doing isn't working. You aren't going to call in every bull you meet up with. But I am sure going to have fun trying. And the bright side to failing is I get to stay out hunting a little longer, always a plus. Cause when I kill an elk the wife thinks I should stay home[:@].
Gselkhunter

elknut1

gselkhunter---Very well said!!!

Can you imagine calling in every bull? Boy that'd take the fun & excitement right out of it. Those are the very reasons I personally am hooked on elk hunting. (archery) The challenge of bringing elk in close is a never ending learning experience. Sure we bring in our share as you do. But the ones we remember the most are the ones that gave us the slip, and what we need to do to adjust, and avoid such mishaps.

I totally agree a hunter needs to have an unlimited arsenal when it comes to elk hunting. My motto is never give up, take advantage of every opportunity, adapt your thinking to a method that fits the encounter. Not one strategy works for any elk all the time.

Yes, it's important to never talk over ones audience. I feel you must share things they can grasp and understand and let them digest and grow with it. Being in the woods and having first hand experiences is the best teacher, but guys like us can help less experienced ones to shorten the learning curve just a bit, therefore avoiding many of the mistakes we made because there was no one to tell us differently. --- One thing I truly enjoy is helping others, without a doubt I'm as or more excited than they are when I can call in someones first bull, you'd swear it was the first time I ever hunted. <big grin> Thanks--ElkNut1

gselkhunter

One of the things that I worry about when talking to new hunters at a seminar or in a forum like this is, what do I do with out thinking about it, autopilot so to speak. The little things, like nose into the wind. I find as many elk with my nose as my calling. Trying to explain how to use cover for a stalk or a set up. Things like taking a bath before going out in the woods to reduce human scent. Don't use scented soap or deoderant like at home. I wear my clothes only once then wash them again. Little tips like the string on a bow will show you wind direction at your bow, but not 30yds down range. So use a powder bottle, a squeeze of powder will show what the wind is really doing. Going up, or down or to a side you didn't think it was going to. I like you Elknut1 like helping people. An example of a good tip, don't set up in the sun, set up in a shadow. Reason, movement in the sun is easily detected by elk. My wedding ring gave me away one day, reflected sun light and spooked a bull. I was very lucky in my begining days, I had a mentor, and Bob let me make the mistake and then would tell me how I blew it. It really drove the point home. I like to give back what I have been lucky enough to receive. I like elk hunting so much I became a student. If you say that you would handle a situation different than I would, I file that in my head and try it next time. I went so far as to learn the difference in canape covers and why they were important to elk. How elk move on ranges because of nutritional needs. I even went into diseases and what they can do to a herd. I even learned about carrying capacities and conflicts with other animals for same food needs. I really am a elk student and it is a course I can never finish because it keeps changing. So ask your self passion or obsession, I think both, boy am I glad, I can't wait for the next chapter.
Gselkhunter

elknut1

gselkhunter---Yes I agree as experienced elk hunters we no doubt take many of the things we do automaticly, for granted. It doesn't mean we don't think about them, it's we have certain things ingrained that we know can't be ignored, like the wind, not calling in open meadows, not talking out loud, carrying essentials in our daypacks and prepared to spend the night if need be. Of course there's much more, heck I had to think for a second to remember these! <grin> --- I have noticed in even new elk hunters though that they aren't totally helpless. Many have been hunting other game animals for years and have decided to take the challenge of elk hunting up. Unfortunately for them there's a little more involved when you decide to do it with a bow.

In Justhuntitalls case he's been hunting elk for years now and has been successful. It's just that he'd like the challenge to call some into bowrange. Yes, it's important for him to be extra careful of the wind, and I mean at all times, scent lok or eliminator sprays just don't cut it. My suggestion to him would to be to avoid such products in thinking it will get him closer to elk. (it is his thread) In my findings those that rely on the wind only are also considerate of all aspects of bowhunting elk. They're just more careful and totally aware of their surroundings. They don't throw caution to the wind and feel a little wind at their back is ok, while those with such products think they're invisible!! I feel ones use these things as a crutch and hope, just maybe they can get away with a little bad wind and the elk won't notice.

Products such as sprays or lotions or clothing are hyped up too much, it's all in advertising. You do not need them to hunt elk! We have elk in our face regularly and probably take more elk than most. We do not use anything special, and yes I wash with regular soaps and shampoos on the very days I hunt. <grin> You must keep the wind in your face, I'm very adamant with that and pass it on to others.--I realize the wind can swirl on you and can mess things up, but we don't force it, we wait for it to change or back out so as not to spook anything. Sad to say, many of those who wear such eliminator products seem to want to push the envelope. They chase more critters off than they'll ever realize or admit to. ---I'd just like to say that I really enjoy your sound thoughts and comments!! ElkNut1

justhuntitall

Thanks for the coments guys take it in like a sponge. Yes the wind thing I must say I hate the wind in CO. yes dust works great. Oh yeah the sent thing I could never understand the sent control suits but I do use cover sents at home with whitetails. My thoughts they cant possiably get rid of all your sent so is the elk not going to run when he smells just a little bit of you.

I have another question I hunt the flat tops I think I said that earlyer you say get above them well the Flat tops make that hard how would you guys hunt there?

elknut1

Elk are a funny animal. There are places such as around ones camp or homes or golf courses that they'll tolerate certain smells including humans. But take that same smell into their homes and they are out of there in a second. It doesn't have to be human scent either, it can be anything foreign to there surroundings or used to smelling, like food in your pack, your breath, fletching glues, just about anything that can leave an odor. A little bit can be enough to spook off a cagey ole bull.

Not sure what you're asking about your hunting area? Could you be more specific? I think you might mean you're already hunting elk high up but not sure. <grin> Thanks-ElkNut1

gselkhunter

Justhuntitall, This is the perfect meat & potatos elk hunting question. Where do I find them and why are they there? To answer this question we need to move back to June. Cow have calves on the ground and bulls are growing antlers. Nutritional needs are different, so they are in different places, eating different foods. The bulls are building for an up coming rut and the cows are rasing babies, then getting ready to rut. They both go through the summer rebuilding their bodies from winter and preparing for another winter. The 4 basic needs, 1 food, 2 water, 3 cover, 4 range. 1 & 2 I don't think anybody needs help with. 3 Is a changing need. Cover is for temp control and security. 4 Is also changing, they are different place throughout the year, spring, summer , fall and winter. But they need all thoses places or they will die. The most critical are summer and winter range, for they are fighting off starvation. That is a quick over view, if you want more info,ask. Now on to Aug., this is the big month. The bulls shed their velvet, they have their fat caps built, the sperm count is at it's peak and their winter coat is coming in. The cows have their fat caps, their winter coats are coming in and estrus cycles start. This is a really cool time! The elk have two foes, hunters and heat. Hunters can be avoided as you know, but heat can't. This is where canape cover comes in. When the tree branches are so thick that sunlight is blocked out, the temp will stay cool. Add this to a hill with up & down hill air flow and you keep as cool as possible. Since elk with a winter coat can take a lot of cold, but not a lot of heat, they stay in there til the temp comes down or they have to have water. So find a place that has good tree cover and close sheltered water source and boom you have found elk in hot weather. Because of heat they will go nocturnal to feed also. They will go nocturnal to rut because of heat also. The thyroid glan in their neck[bulls] will swell up and kill them in heat if they bugle too much. Answer go nocturnal. When guys ask me what did I do wrong, they were bugling like crazy on Sat. and Sun. nothing. First question I ask, was it cool on sat? And I will get, "Yeah but Sunday was sunny and hot." There you go. Or they will say booth days were the same temp. Then I ask did they bust you, and they say yeah. There you go, they are avoiding you, or they left the area. Now back to cover, I said cover is also used for security. The elk felt pressure from hunters so they went to an area that has good canape cover for heat and is thick enough to hide in, also has good water close and has good escape routes. This usually is a canyon or hillside so the elk can go up, down or to the side to escape. This is pretty basic stuff and there is more to it, but this will give you an idea of what to look for. If you have been hunting the Flat Tops for a while you probably know that very spot. Hope this helps.
Gselkhunter Oh yeah I forgot one statement, you know the place that everybody says if you kill one in there you better eat them there, that's the place!

justhuntitall

Yeah I know the place I got This natural funnel I hunt Its good for an elk every time I mean fail proof about three years ago we killed 3 bulls there and one guy had a miss.I can find elk and get a chance to kill elk every year . I want to work them with calls and see better elk somthing 300+inch range my long time hunting partner killed one right at 300inch range in the spot we hunt .

The more I think about it maybe where I hunt we may need to start drawing for p pionts in better bull areas. We are going to be out there every year anyway so why not try for a better area.

Thanks guys!