man of death

Shay, its Shaun not David . Why not use my name you didnt mind putting our picts up. You are full of crap, you told me and Harp both not to feel bad you had hunted the same area and didnt get your bull either. Guess you can keep your story straight. You promoted the hunt and never stepped foot in our camp, Barry didnt either other than the first and last night. If you so reputable why dont you have someone besides Kirk and Jordan doing testimonials on your site? I dont stand you gain anything you got my money - just hope someone else doesnt make the same mistake. Who should they believe - me or a guy trying to sell his services. You fell short and didnt do anything about it . BTW, Ellis went to Colorado this season and killed a bull and a muley that will make the books maybe he should get in the business. Buyer beware

Kirk Edgerton

You got cold, be a man and stop the whinning. Shay said there was a mix up and appologized, its backcountry hunting, things go wrong, storms hit and people get cold. Christ, I've camped in the rain and cold with 5 year olds and have heard less complaining. I'm done with you and please do me a favor, leave my name out of your conversation and comments. I'm a paying hunter at Del Sol and work hard to be successful, something you might want to consider on future hunts.

Oh yeah, if you were this upset, you should have chatted with Barry when he came to pick you up or immediately after your trip.....doing it a year after, come on man?

shay mann

I knew it had to be your or David, because Jeff and Grant didn't have a problem with the hunt. Grant sent me an email saying that everything was fine. And Jeff got into elk everyday of the hunt... Why you ask??? because he didn't get back to camp until after 10:00 each night. And he had Bivy gear to stay out.

I used the photos to show the country, and to show that you spiked out in blue bird weather. And yet still decided to complain about not being prepared with a sleeping bag. The whole crux of your argument is still the tent situation (which i've taken full responsibility for) and that we didn't scout for elk, which is completely unfounded.

Let me ask you this... Did a herd of elk (around 15-20 head) including a spike bull come within 92 yards of the tent one day??? Simple yes or no answer? And did someone in your group actually go after that spike and make a play on it.

Why is Kirk and Jordan the only one on film talking about a hunt. (Oh yeah, Dennis Pontoni was on there as well) The simple reason, was because I was filming on those hunts. I don't film just random client hunts. That isn't part of our package deal. We can't afford to send a camera man with every hunter.

As far as testimonials, I welcome you to call anyone one of these people listed below. And I will have other testimonials on our website.

Kevin Akers 503-753-2902
Chris Fryman 541-619-1106
Brian Lamvik 503-522-3635
Clyde Stone 503-538-5778
Chad Jackson 503-329-9797
Cameron Hanes [email protected]


I've got alot more. Be my guest call anyone of them. Ask them how they hunted, and if they were successful. So were this year, and some weren't. It is bowhunting my friend.


And about my story being straight. I told you and David to not feel bad, because I know 10 times more of the Eagle Cap than you guys do. And I hunted 10 days longer than you guys did, and I didn't kill anything. My point is, is that you are hunting cagey elk, that move from one basin, or one drainage to another. They can be in one part of the country one day, and split the next. If you want a high fenced elk hunt, maybe you should choose an outfitter who doesn't have "Wilderness Adventures" in their name.



What does Jeff Ellis have to do with your argument, saying that he went to Colorado and killed a bull and an elk. Jeff is a hell of a hunter. And that is a quote from Jordan. If he wants to get into the packing business, he is probably more than capable. A few horses, a National Forest Permit, truck and trailer, he is off to the races. I still don't see what that has to do with anything we are discussing here.


So you can go ahead and say things like "I'm full of crap", or whatever else. I'm trying to discuss the facts on what went on to the best of my knowledge. Not the best place for a discussion. But I haven't heard from you in over a year. So if this is the forum you want to rattle off in, then I'm total game.


You got anything else? Are we going to now resort to personal name calling?

wyomingtrapper

Sounds like elk hunting in about any area.

Interesting thread. I didn't follow it for a few days, but it got interesting. It is hard to resolve the differences between expectations and reality. The tent deal, well someone dropped the ball I suppose. Send the unhappy client a couple of hundred bucks back and don't ever book him again.

I will say manofdeath, if you believe you were wronged you need to address it directly with the outfitter and give him a chance to make things right by you. If you are concerned others may be done wrong, then it is good to get the word out. However, you need to be careful that all you post is factual. If you assert there were no elk in that area, when indeed there were; or that it wasn't scouted, when indeed it was; then you are crossing the lines of slander or libel. If a person causes damage to another person (an outfitter in this case) through slander or libel, then they are setting themselves up for a possible civil suit.

This isn't really directed toward manofdeath or shay, but to those considering elk hunting who haven't. You can't control elk. They cover a lot of ground. If it is a wilderness area, there will no doubt be elk. Even regular elk hunters seem reluctant to do what it takes in lean years or in areas where the population is down. This year I listened to the majority of hunters complaining that there were no elk. Sign was slim compared to most years, and the elk were scattered more, rather than herded up as usual during October. Still we saw elk most times we went up and the rare sign everytime. I've seen more elk between 10 am and 4 pm then in the early mornings and late evenings together. If your in camp more than to sleep and grab a pre/post sleeping bag bite to eat, then you are robbing yourself of valuable hunting time. If you are at camp during mid day, then you are definately not coving a LOT of country that requires dark to dark hiking.

We can all get lucky at times, and the fact is that a wilderness hunt is not necessarily a better chance at a big bull then easier hunts in other areas. Most people have no idea how rough some country can be. I've lived and hunted in several ranges. Where I'm at now makes many ranges look tame. Run up the Snake River canyon south of Jackson and you'll see steep that sets the standard for tough country. You may have experience in one area and find it does nothing to prepare you for a another.

There is nothing like hunting elk, and--except maybe seeking monster muleys--it can test your mettle like nothing else as well. If your going on a mountain elk hunt, be prepared for harsh, steep country, for blizzards and below zero weather, keep yourself well hydrated with water (not too many sugar drinks), take clothes for any weather: dry or wet; -20 to +90... Its hard to get in shape for high altitude hunting at a low altitude. You can condition the muscles, and get the cardo vascular to peak for your altitude, but will still feel like your having a major asthma attack climbing at 9500 ft. Arriving a few days early and spending them up high, before you join up with your outfitter, will help to acclimatize. Even a couple of days at 6000 ft will help.

CamoCop

i can't believe someone is whinning about having another hunter within 7 miles of them. i wish i could hunt area's that no one was within 1/4 of a mile from me.

PA_BOW_HUNTER

Do you think it was a goodbusiness decision, even if you did pay for it, to hunt the same area that you are guiding. The PERCEPTION to the hunter, especially after you got into 9 bulls in 10 days, was that you had a honey hole that you did not allow the paying clients to go to.

The hunter does not know what kind of arrangement you have with your boss, he is only hearing that you are getting into elk every day and your friend even tagged out.

shay mann

I see your point. And yes, maybe I shouldn't show the success that I had in an particular area. Might rub other clients the wrong way. But we did put them in a good spot. How many bulls has Cameron Hanes killed in this area? I can think of 6 or 7 off the top of my head. And about as many bucks. We had 2 guys hunt out of that camp this year, and they got into elk. I won't hesitate putting people in this camp. I did it again this year, and will do it again next year.

Me being a bowhunter, I think is an asset to the outfit. I live in these mountains during the summer and hunt it during bow season. I'm not just selling a hunt, or just a horseman, or an outfitter. I think I reflect
the average guy who comes in there to hunt. And I think it is good that I can put people in the best possible place to kill, based on first hand experience. I'm not that dumb, to think that it is good for business if our clients don't kill. I want people to kill, I want good references, I want good word of mouth. I don't welcome this complaint at all, especially in this public forum. But that is part of the deal, I guess.

I cut my teeth hunting these mountains, and yes I do know alot of area. And I know that if I put myself or Kirk or whomever I want, and we hunt the same area that was listed in this initial complaint. I know that I will have opportunities. Maybe not kill anything, but I will get into elk. In-fact we did kill this year, only a mere 45 minutes from this camp this year. A big 6 X 6 was shot at, and a spike killed. Out of a herd of nearly 100.

Maybe we will only do Backpacking Drop Camps during archery season. If you hunt off your back, then all you do is hunt. If you have a nice camp to come back to, with great food and good company. How hard are you going to hunt? If you get dropped off, and then hunt off your back. Well the only thing you have to do is hunt. And it might remove the argument from hunters, that there wasn't any elk in the immediate area of camp. Very rarely are elk in the immediate area of camp.

Thanks for the constructive critisism, I welcome that. And thanks for not saying that "I'm full of crap". I don't think that gets us anywhere.

shay mann

If someone wants to pay for a guided trip, then I will guide them in these mountains. And though we may setup base camp at this camp in question. We probably won't spend more than a day or two at this camp, if there isn't any elk in the immediate area.

We would load up the packs, grab the bivy gear, including a cold-weather sleeping bag, we would lace up our boots, and we would hammer our feet going out looking for elk. It may be uncomfortable at times, we may get a little wet, we may get a little cold. But we would leave it all on the table. We won't come back on the last day of the hunt and wonder "did we do everything we could do to kill a bull" That question would be answered with a resounding 'YES'.

shay mann

Maybe we are expecting more from our clients than we should. Maybe I need to do a better job screening clients. This is a tough hunt, physically demanding, and mentally challenging. We want hunters who understand this, and hunters with realistic, high mountain, wilderness, public-land expectations.

Because if you aren't of this mindset, you will be disappointed.

jofus13

I dunno, my first (and hopefully not last) elk hunting trip wasn't with an outfitter, but rather with my buddy's dad (who used to guide and grew up in the area), but we hiked 6 miles (and 2500 feet elevation) leading pack horses to sleep in a homemade (on the spot, out of a lot of tarps and a lot of rope) tent in the last rifle season. Morning temps in the tent were between 0 and 5 F, I didn't sleep a bit the first 2 nights (the 50+ mph wind and snow blowing in through the tarps didn't help), we ate mountain house meals all week, had to carry our water from a spring up the hill a ways, and I only saw the hind end of one elk for a split second, and then had a good look at a spike that I couldn't shoot.

And I can't wait to go back.

Even if I didn't really get acclimated to the altitude til the last day of our hunt You can get in shape (which I did fairly well), but it's still hard to prepare for 10,000 feet when the highest point around where you live is 3000 feet.



My point is (if I have one) is that you don't go Elk hunting expecting a walk in the park. I don't think I would head into the Rockies in the middle of summer without a cold weather sleeping bag, just in case. Even if the tent had been heated, heaters can break down, right?