muley699

Shay, when i go into the wilderness I have 3 survival concerns: 1. Suffering a serious injury. (Usually, nobody has much control over that.) 2. Getting lost. (should never happen with proper equipment and knowledge, outfitter controls this) 3. Getting cold/wet/hypothermia (also should never happen with proper knowledge/ equipment, outfitter also controls this). I personally think that violating 1 of the 3 no-nos of wilderness survival is rather big deal. Frankly, I would be pissed if i brought inadequate cold weather gear and had to sleep in a dome tent. I can prepare, so long as i know the conditions. Man, when i'm cold, my functional ability starts to deminish quickly, as does everybody's. In my view an outfitter should make the camp so comfortable, that the only thing the hunter need worry about is hunting. I agree if a hunter is not prepared for the mental and physical demands of a true wilderness hunt, they won't be happy, no question, and that is the hunters fault. Frankly, few are prepared for this type of hunt. As far as where you and your buddy were hunting, I think that is not an issue. I also think that too many hunters have unreasonable expectations. However, as an outfitter, camp conditions can take a lot of sting off a disappointing hunt if the camp is supurb. My 2 cents, worth price charged.

shay mann

I'm in total agreement about camp life being able to take the sting off a disappointing hunt.

Day time temps during that week were in the 80's and night time temps never getting even close to freezing. So, I don't believe we were in violation of your rule #3. Maybe just a tad uncomfortable, getting in and out of the sleeping bag.

With that aside, if these guys were uncomfortable at camp. Then that is my issue, and my responsibility. But besides the tent issue, I know the camp life was great.

If I sound a bit defensive, then maybe I am. When someone says that we just threw someone in an area because it was easy for us, and that we don't care that they have a good hunt. Then I will get defensive. The tent, well, we beat that topic to death. But this was an early September archery hunt in mostly blue-bird weather. So that issue seemed small to me, with the help of heavy canvas tarps.

In-fact, when the guy who complained about being cold was given a tarp, his exact quote was "Problem Solved."

beech18

I would say the hunter even during a earilySept hunt bringing a light sleeping bag going in by horseback isnt the best idea, weather in the mountains can change on a dime for one. Why not take a heavier bag? Even in a wall tent with a stove, nights can still get cold unless you plan to get out of your bagevery hour to stoke the fire. Which only means less sleep to keep the fire goingand more time cutting firewood during the dayso your able to keep a fire going all night. Onlytime I consider taking a light bag is in theevent I have topersonally carry it on my own back ona backpack hunt. Looking at the web site, I noticed theyadvertised if not taking a guide, would not have the option to riding out with horses to hunt.....Only 1 guy hiredthe guide so as I would readwho didnt hire on for a guidewould not get access to horses during the hunt, rather hunt on foot during the trip.

muley699

Well the original poster hasn't replied or clarified anything, at least the guide was on here explaining. Other than the tent issue, which the outfitter took responsibilty for, I don't see a lot wrong here. A lot of hunters complain about a lack of game b/c they simply are not accustomed to the effort required to get into elk. We hiked a back pack camp in over 5 miles on our backs this year, and several miles a day of hiking/calling to get into the elk, but we got in to em. We stayed in light-weight one man tents, cooked our own meals on jet-boil stoves, and had to walk down hill to get water, and i loved it, so I guess to each their own. I think if the original poster is going to trash an outfitter, they could at least get on here and explain in more detail. I'm not a big fan of outfitters in general, but their reputation is critical and one should respect that it is somebodys business wether you like outfitters or not.

AlaskaMagnum

I have done do-it-yourself fly in hunts in Alaska for years. I spend all of my time in a dome tent, because heated wall tents are far too heavy to pack into a SuperCub. I have flown with several pilots. All I considered good, some better than others. I eat crappy de-hydrated food, sleep on the cold ground (sometimes I can bring my Go-Kot), and pump my own water. My backpack always has a cheap tarp that I cut into two pieces. One is to siwash it out at night if I am on a moose and I know I wont get back to camp. The other is used for placing quartered game on while I de-bone and butcher. I bring a -20 bag no matter what, because I would rather be prepared than not. I wear Mendell or Lowa boots because everything else out there is junk in comparison. I wear wool clothing because it keeps you warm when wet. I use Helle knives because you cannot sharpen Japanese steel with a stone. I use a Barney's Sport Chalet pack because it hauls game the best. Bottom-line, I come preprared.

That is wilderness hunting. I would kill for the luxery of a horse and they make me sneeze. Last moose took us eight days until we actually found a bull worth shooting, walking several miles per day.

Problem is guys don't know what they are getting themselves into when they go wilderness hunting. Outfitters needs to emphasize this, and guys need to figure out how to pack.

YOu should also have an exercise program six or eight months prior to these hunts.

shay mann

Check out this hunt that we did for Cameron Hanes and his 15 year old son. Great story and write-up

www.cameronhanes.com or

www.cameronhanes.com/?p=374

man of death

Shay - you are almost as good as posting as you were selling us on this hunt. The truth is not in you. As I stated we hunted out of a camp that you guys had used for summer trips the tents stay up year round - your guys were actively trying to get a permit from the state while we were there. There were no elk in the area despite the fact that you assured us you had scouted the area. All 4 of us had hunted elk and killed elk in Colorado this was not out first hunt. It was our first and last experience with Del Sol. You didnt hold up your end of the deal and I told you that I would give an honest reference on the service. The problem was not Bob his food was great. Jordan was also great he worked his tail off for Grant. I dont know who came up with problem solved I froze my ass off. I do agree with Muley we should have been prepared but we had several conference calls with both you and Barry . I asked about what type of bag I should bring and you told me we would have heated tents so I brought a light bag.


I have done the do it yourself hunt several times in both New Mexico and Colorado with success. I paid Del Sol to put me in an area with game and provide me with a comfortable camp and you didn't hold up your end of the deal.

Also howdid you and Kirk hunt an different area when Barry told us he was only licensed in the area we camped in. Did you violate the terms of his license? You never represented Kirk as a friend in the video - but as a client. Is it me or are you mis representing the services you offer . The others will respond as well - you didnt offer us anything but it really didnt matter we are done with Del Sol. We were all in excellant shape and hunted our tails off

Fellows - if you need more info pm me before you book with these guys - what you see is not what you get

lnester

If an outfitter promised heated wall tents, then they better damn well provide that. What the hell else are you paying for besides food? However, even in a wall tent setup, I would bring a 0 degree bag at least. You can never be too warm in the mountains. As for game, well that's always a crap shoot, so I don't think you can fault the outfitter. My $0.02.

shay mann

What do you mean, how did we hunt in a different area when Barry told us he was the only licensed in the area? I work for Barry, and I hunted smack dab in the middle of our packing permit. I don't understand what you are saying.

Del Sol dropped Kirk and I off in the middle of our permit area. Just because I work for Del Sol 11 months out of the year, doesn't mean I can't hunt in our permitted pack area. We had other camps in our unit the same time you were in there. You weren't the only camp in 100,000 acres.

I wasn't working when I was hunting with Kirk. I was hunting for myself, and Kirk and I were both paying clients of Del Sol. I have to pay for the services that we use, even though I work for Del Sol. There is an opportunity cost, when I take up time and resources that I have to make good.

We were legal in that area, and we hunted the same area again this past year. I don't understand that argument.

We probably have about 100 thousand acres of allowable permitted area to use. Your camp wasn't the only one in our area. Barry said he was the only licensed outfitter for your camp, meaning that no other outfitter can work camps in our area. Pretty normal operating procedures for outfitters.

Remember the "Hell Hole" that you guys complained about having to walk in and out of??? A 30 minute to an hour walk??? A huge 6X6 bull missed in Hell Hole this year, and a spike killed. Again, the head of the main drainage that you were at, clients got into a ton of elk in there this year. I'm sorry, there wasn't elk around every corner. But we did scout it, I saw elk there, Jordan saw elk there. Barry was in there with elk. Do you not remember that bull going through your camp. Or did you forget about that. Or did you not forget that on the way out, Barry spotted you guys a bull in that Basin on the way out. That none of you were really interested in going after it.

I don't even know if this is D.H or S.D. posting here. But as I did say, I regret the tent issue. And the heater issue. I know you paid alot of money. But I did not sell you a bill of goods. You really think in the day of hunting forums and internet posting, that I enjoy defending ourselves. We have a great reputation, and have good success for opportunities during archery and rifle season. We have people that have already booked for next year. Some that didn't even kill this past year. But they understand that you may only get one opportunity.

Why wasn't any of this brought up during the hunt, or when Barry was there. When I asked Barry how he thought everything went, he said you guys were pretty happy and tipped well. Usually, if I'm that disappointed in a product or a service. Ticked off enough to slam us for a year after the fact. I surely wouldn't tell the owner of the outfit that everything was fine, and pay a good tip.

Were we perfect?... NO and never will be.
Did we put you in an area that historically have elk? ... YES.
Did 3 of us scout the area? ABSOLUTELY YES !!!!
I was there 3 days before you got there. I Hiked in 10 miles to check out that country, got into a big herd in the large basin that you ride through, about a 30 minute walk to camp.

Yes, I don't deny that we use that camp and other camps, for summer camp locations. This one is a good spot, and a hub to some lakes, and is on top for access to other creeks and basins. But we did it again this year. A summer camp in July and August, doesn't mean there are not elk there in September. Plain and Simple.

Again, I'm sorry the experience wasn't exactly what you wanted. I'm sorry about the tent issue. But did you think that your spike camp was going to be a wall tent with a stove? Maybe I'm assuming to much here, that is my fault. But an early September spike camp doesn't usually include a wall tent and a stove. Were you the only one not intending on spiking out? So you didn't bring a "spike" quality sleeping bag.

We've had these conversations and back and forth bantering before. I don't expect anything to get solved here on the forums. I don't expect you to believe me or be happy. Because this has been going on for a year, and you seem to be a man on a mission, spending a lot of time and energy to let everyone know how disappointed you are in our service. So I don't expect it to ever be resolved.

I guess I will fight just as hard or more than the effort you are putting out to maintain our excellent name as you are in to destroying it. Nothing I can do to change the past, I don't think there is anything I can do to make you see my side. So I guess this will be an ongoing battle, that I will deal with. And I will fight. This is our livelihood. I eat and live based on the success of this business. And realize that a good reputation is the only thing that matters.

I welcome any other points you want to post. In private or in public.

[email protected]

Respectfully,

Shay Mann

shay mann

I agree with you on a heated wall tent. I don't know how many more times I can admit to this very critical logistical error. And take full responsibility for it. You do pose a very important question: "What else is being paid for besides food."

Here is the breakdown:

Total cost for the trip: $11,500 (8 Days)

Client 1: $2500
Client 2: $2500
Client 3: $2500
Client 4: $4000

Clients 1, 2 and 3 paid for a Supplied Camp plus a cook (Deluxe Camp / No Guide)
Client 4: paid for a Supplied Camp, plus a cook (Deluxe Camp / WITH Guide)

A typical Supplied camp is $1500 - $2000 per hunter.

We charged the hunter with a guide $187.50 / day for 8 days. We pay our guide $150.00 / day.

Again I have nothing to hide here.