Nomercy

How far out there would you trust an accurate .45acp rifle for on whitetail deer? Namely, a tommy gun carbine? I'm guessing I'll get a lot of fire on here that it's an unethical choice, but I've used and witnessed 9mm carbines and .45acp handguns take deer at impressive ranges, so the carbine should be at worst a small improvement. I'd never shoot at a range that I wasn't confident of effecting a kill zone shot, but I'm uncertain of the power factor, the .45acp rifle might be accurate enough that I could hit a deer at 150yrds, but will it get the job done out there?

James B

Its at its best at ranges under 50 yards. Not much powder capacity. In most states such as the two I hunt in, it would not be legal. Not enough ft lbs of energy.

mtair

you need at least 1000 foot pounds of energy ,at any given distance . to be a contender as a deer rifle . you can get that info from ballistic tables .that is the rule of thumb ive gone by. realisticlly i dont think you can get that energy from that cartridge any wear out past 50 yards.

Coastie

The .45 round is inherently one of the most accurate rounds available. Check the BC of any large round and you will find it impressive. A rifle in .45 ACP would be interesting to say the least. My .45 ACP (1911 A1) will put a lot of rounds in the same general area (2.5"-3") at 25 yards something with a longer barrel should improve on that considerably. The 9MM I wouldn't give you a dime for, just a personal thing you understand.

Nomercy

mtair, I won't say you aren't entitled to your opinion, but your statement about requiring 1000ft.lbs. of energy at any given distance for whitetail is quite over-reaching...most states with energy requirement laws cut a bottom dollar at 500ft.lbs. muzzle energy, I will speak from experience that 500ft.lbs. is a much closer estimate to the "truth". I won't say that 500ft.lbs. is the minimum to guarantee a clean kill, as hunting and killing isn't all ballistic theory and physics, but a perfect shot even with 2000ft.lbs. is not guaranteed to kill a deer, even slowly...I just feel that claiming trump at 1000ft.lbs. is driving 40mph on interstate.

In the interest of thouroughly supporting my point, I'd like to exemplify some "typical" hunting rounds: a SKS (7.62x39mm) typically has less than 1000ft.lbs. at 200yrds, while I've taken whitetails at twice that range, a .44mag rifle falls below your mark at 100yrds, while again, I've taken deer at twice that range with a Marlin 1894, in a revolver, the .44mag often starts out with barely over 1000ft.lbs., 1200ft.lbs. M.E. is a fairly stout hunting load, being barely over 600ft.lbs at 125yrds, which many consider the maximum range for a glassed .44mag handgun, the debateable .357mag is often lucky to pump 500ft.lbs. at the muzzle, and at 50yrds (check these boards, 50yrds is typically agreed upon to be max range for this cartridge), it may fall as low as 350ft.lbs. even in the stoutest of loadings. I also reiterate that I have witnessed .45acp pistols (ME less than 550ft.lbs) and 9mm carbines (ME often less than 400 or 350ft.lbs.) take deer and hogs out to 30 and 50yrds respectively.

mtair

i was only stating my opinion, a well placed shot from a 22 rimfire will kill a deer , would i hunt eith one (if it was legal in my state ) no i wouldnt. i once shot a wild boar with a 40 s+w . 2 shots in the shoulder w/ cor-bon 180 grain + p s killed him as dead as a 50 bmg could have . the 1000 ft. pds. that i stated is a refrence mark . that ive often heard and read ,that puts some kind of meaning to the words foot pounds of energy. as it relates to deer hunting . given the choice i would much rather see a begining hunter understand this then go out and hunt with a under powered rifle. thats all i was trying to say!

mauser06

i dont think it really packs the punch much past 50....i dont have time or id look at tables to back me up.....it would be interesting....and i definently think it would drop like a BRICK!..them bullets are HEAVY...and theres not much to keep them flying...

Nomercy

Just like to say that I wasn't meaning to attack mtair, just wanted to make my point clear and well supported, not to offend him or anyone else. I'd also like to comment, though, that I'm wondering if the 1000ft.lbs. mark doesn't come from the fact that most people set a limit of range on most high powered rifle cartridges, i.e. it's typically agreed upon that in the best of shooters' hands, a .243win is only good to 300yrds-350 at most, a .30-06 is only good to 600yrds, and it just so happens that for most of these cartridges, the energy level has dropped to 1000ft.lbs., pretty much this happens just as a coincidence, most .30-06's aren't accurate enough to make a 600yrd shot, so taking one at a farther range isn't realistic for most people, it's related to accuracy, not energy, then people consider that the .243 is so much weaker than the .30-06, so it can't be used at the same ranges, while a quick look at our tables shows that even the 1000ft.lbs. limit comes beyond 400yrds, again, it's not really related to energy...handgun cartridges are much more accurately judged to fit their energies (although their energy level and accuracy tend to limit out at the same range), as I mentioned before, a .44mag has about 600ft.lbs at its agreed upon maximum effective range-which is where groups start getting huge even under perfect conditions, and I can well vouch for the fact that the .44mag is ample medicine at 125yrds. Energy is energy, so there's no reason a .300win mag should need 1000ft.lbs. to kill a deer while a .44mag can get away with slightly over half that...most cartridges are only judged by accuracy, so rifles get undersold, while the "weak" cartridges of pistols tend to limit themselves in accuracy AND energy at virtually the same range.

BTW, mtair, how far off was that hog? I've never seen a .40S&W in action against them, heck, I've rarely handled one in any action-they're not terribly popular around here for some odd reason, I guess we're just living in the past out here. I'm a true blue .45acp pistol shooter, so I doubt I'll ever buy one, but my lil'lady's in the market for a new pistol, she's not really fond of her 9mm or .380.

mtair

nomercy , i know you werent attacking . thats the wonderful thing about this forum. you can state your opinion , you can state documented facts . you can ask questions , you can get answers . but most important ,you may pick up somthing in here that will someday make you a better more informed hunter .that hog i took was with an h.k. u.s.p. varient 2 , at about 20 feet away the first shot put him down the second shot put him away . he was 245 pounds , i was on the ground when i took him and just about s--- myself !

Mossyhead

Nomercy, I know you said carbine and tommy-gun. But for reference, I hunt at one of my stands swith a Glock 21, .45ACP. From a lot of range shooting I know the rounds drop 2 to 3 inches at 50 yds and about 9 at 100 yds. I limit my shot to 30 yds with this piece not only because of the loss of punch past 50 yds but also I shoot with Patrigde sights. And it doesn't take a lot of wind to throw the bullet way off after 30 yds. I'm no ballistics expert. This is just what I experience with this particular piece.