Defining fair chase....
12-18-2003, 11:51 AM
#21
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Saskatchewan Canada
Posts: 6,921
RE: Defining fair chase....
Charlie P that is not only outrageous it is illegal! Having worked in the outfitting business for many years I can tell you no matter how big a tip I wouldn't do this. They pay big bucks to hunt the frozen land for a trophy buck, I wouldn't be doing my job by robbing them of the enjoyment/pleasure of harvesting their DEER. I am not saying your friend is wrong persay but I would question his ethics and morals(I would also have a few question for the outfitter in which he works for). If you come to hunt you better be able to make it happen, you also better not expect to be going home with a hawg...it ain't true they are tied up behind every tree...it takes dedication, hardwork, excution and good old fashion luck. Again just my opinion!
Fair chase is really in the mind of the hunter. To me I think it is hunting a animal in his own turf with no boundries & no assurances that you'll even see a deer much less harvest the deer. I have tried the fence gig on occasion for boar, buffalo and it was just a kill/meat for the table. We don't have the operation you all have down their, the ones up here that cater to the same clients is pick your animal, pay the price and shoot your prize...to me that isn't really fair chase or how I would define hunting in my world. But I don't fault those who make a living or even those who choose to hunt this way. I will never say it is the same but in the same breath will never say it is wrong. I value the experiences, enjoyment and memories I get out of hunting. The harvest is a reward to the effort and certainly not a given, thus my opinion and choice.
Everybody is different, as long as they are happy then all the power to them.
Fair chase is really in the mind of the hunter. To me I think it is hunting a animal in his own turf with no boundries & no assurances that you'll even see a deer much less harvest the deer. I have tried the fence gig on occasion for boar, buffalo and it was just a kill/meat for the table. We don't have the operation you all have down their, the ones up here that cater to the same clients is pick your animal, pay the price and shoot your prize...to me that isn't really fair chase or how I would define hunting in my world. But I don't fault those who make a living or even those who choose to hunt this way. I will never say it is the same but in the same breath will never say it is wrong. I value the experiences, enjoyment and memories I get out of hunting. The harvest is a reward to the effort and certainly not a given, thus my opinion and choice.
Everybody is different, as long as they are happy then all the power to them.
12-18-2003, 11:55 AM
#23
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Georgia
Posts: 24
RE: Defining fair chase....
Trophy,
Can't you see how wrong you are? Nikes may work fine behind a high fence, but TRUE hunters only chase them in Adidas!! Now that, and ONLY that is fair chase!!! An adidas hunter is to be respected!
Can't you see how wrong you are? Nikes may work fine behind a high fence, but TRUE hunters only chase them in Adidas!! Now that, and ONLY that is fair chase!!! An adidas hunter is to be respected!
12-18-2003, 12:45 PM
#25
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 24
RE: Defining fair chase....
ORIGINAL: Injun
I think this whole issue is indicative of our changing society. Slowly but surely, we are losing rural hunters who grew up chasing squirrels and rabbits and hunting for the pure enjoyment of it. Hunting is now a big business, like it or not. Personally, I don't. It's becoming more and more of a competition. If you don't kill a big one, you "failed".
Many people want to kill the bucks they see on TV, but they haven't taken the time to learn how to do it. They haven't spent hundreds of hours over the years scouting, reading, and learning through trial and error. Mistakes....that's how you learn. So, they pay all this money to go be a shooter. Face it, that's all they are. They have not scouted the land, patterned a buck, or learned how to do it on their own in many cases. A guide puts them over a food-plot or a powerline and tells them which deer to shoot. What have they done other than pay money and pull a trigger? To me that is awfully hollow. If that is what someone wants to do, fine...but I have no desire to do that, nor will I respect their ability as a hunter when they are later telling me about all the big bucks they've killed at XYZ ranch.
Now if someone consistently takes a buck representative of the upper-echelon in their area...that is a hunter AND a deer to respect. I just don't get the "have to" to kill a big buck. Again, it's personal, but I'd rather truly hunt and kill a 120 class here in Ga. than to pay a few thousand to go to Texas or wherever and shoot a 170 class I didn't earn.
I think this whole issue is indicative of our changing society. Slowly but surely, we are losing rural hunters who grew up chasing squirrels and rabbits and hunting for the pure enjoyment of it. Hunting is now a big business, like it or not. Personally, I don't. It's becoming more and more of a competition. If you don't kill a big one, you "failed".
Many people want to kill the bucks they see on TV, but they haven't taken the time to learn how to do it. They haven't spent hundreds of hours over the years scouting, reading, and learning through trial and error. Mistakes....that's how you learn. So, they pay all this money to go be a shooter. Face it, that's all they are. They have not scouted the land, patterned a buck, or learned how to do it on their own in many cases. A guide puts them over a food-plot or a powerline and tells them which deer to shoot. What have they done other than pay money and pull a trigger? To me that is awfully hollow. If that is what someone wants to do, fine...but I have no desire to do that, nor will I respect their ability as a hunter when they are later telling me about all the big bucks they've killed at XYZ ranch.
Now if someone consistently takes a buck representative of the upper-echelon in their area...that is a hunter AND a deer to respect. I just don't get the "have to" to kill a big buck. Again, it's personal, but I'd rather truly hunt and kill a 120 class here in Ga. than to pay a few thousand to go to Texas or wherever and shoot a 170 class I didn't earn.
Nicely Put, my views exactly. Could not have said it better myself.
12-18-2003, 02:04 PM
#27
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Cypress TX USA
Posts: 66
RE: Defining fair chase....
I also have given this much thought, my opinion has changed and I'm sure it will in the future.
First, the hundreds of thousands of acres behind the fence on large ranches, like the King Ranch, are truely fair chase. Anyone from B&C or P&Y that hunted there and were truthfull to themselve would admit it. Second, my neighbor 'hunts' on a 3500 acre hi fence ranch. None of the deer were pin raised. All were wild when fenced. The biologest said they have to take in the neighborhood of 40 bucks and 80 does each year. The land is so overpopulated the ranch has slaughter permits. No deer taging is required. No one that I know of considers that anything else than harvesting cattle. Thirdly, somewhere between this 3500 acre farm and the +100,000 acre ranches, it becomes fair chase. Lastly, B&C and P&Y should not be responsible for drawing this line. They should call everything behind a hi fence non-fair chase.
I will likely never kill a deer eligable for the book. It therefore becomes what I think of as fair chase. No one elses opnion really matters. What my memories recall it as is all that is important. If I was behind a fence and thought the animals 'stood fair chance' I would likely recall it as an enjoyable hunt. If it felt like a canned hunt, it would be remimber with a bitter taste in my mouth. No book involved.
First, the hundreds of thousands of acres behind the fence on large ranches, like the King Ranch, are truely fair chase. Anyone from B&C or P&Y that hunted there and were truthfull to themselve would admit it. Second, my neighbor 'hunts' on a 3500 acre hi fence ranch. None of the deer were pin raised. All were wild when fenced. The biologest said they have to take in the neighborhood of 40 bucks and 80 does each year. The land is so overpopulated the ranch has slaughter permits. No deer taging is required. No one that I know of considers that anything else than harvesting cattle. Thirdly, somewhere between this 3500 acre farm and the +100,000 acre ranches, it becomes fair chase. Lastly, B&C and P&Y should not be responsible for drawing this line. They should call everything behind a hi fence non-fair chase.
I will likely never kill a deer eligable for the book. It therefore becomes what I think of as fair chase. No one elses opnion really matters. What my memories recall it as is all that is important. If I was behind a fence and thought the animals 'stood fair chance' I would likely recall it as an enjoyable hunt. If it felt like a canned hunt, it would be remimber with a bitter taste in my mouth. No book involved.
