Alltlk4

Went to lunch with a group from the office. Woman who I knew for years says to me she is going hunting for the first time this fall. Her new husband, who I met a couple times is taking her. I thought that was cool. She tells me about his two brothers operation they have in NE Kansas that she will be hunting on. One brother pen raises the deer and then turns him loose on on the other brothers ranch, which is of course is fenced and people pay big bucks to hunt there. She is going to hunt in the late season after all the clients are gone and they hunt the ranch. I told her that is fine and it sounds like a great business but she is not really hunting. She did not know any different and just asked why and I said that they are in a huge inclosure and can't excape, like shooting fish in a barrel. So week goes by and the husband calls me to tell me how wrong I am. He says there is nothing wrong with it. I tell him that it is a great money maker and he has broken no laws but when he takes time out to hunt this property he is not hunting. Not sure what I would call it he is doing but it is not hunting. He has called me several times with fact and figures and things. I told him you can send me all you want but I am not going to call that or you a hunter. Maybe I am the ignorant one here but how does anyone else feel. I think hunting in a high fence ranch is weak.

Mojotex

"High fence hunting" has been hammered for years. Maybe rightfully so. I am not sure. If it is a "small" place, certainly. But how large is large enough. I can buy into being inside a super large high fence area could be a "hunt", but in my opinion it would have to be 10's of thousands acres. And even then I think it would be possible to condition the deer .... loose feed stations, intentionally left standing ag, or manicured food plots , artificial watering holes .... and to more or less create a seriously "unnatural" make up of the deer herd's doe to buck ratio. I think that if you can drop the ratio of does to bucks down to 1 - 1 or even less ... 1 - 2, you create super breeding-rights competiton, resulting in a group of bucks that are very prone to responding to rattling or grunt-calls. I suspect that you NE Kansas buddy's high fence does not even approach something of this size. Which would make it a "shooting in a barrel" situation to me. And "pen raised" ? How wild are they ? I am not sure.

Terasec

lots of factors to consider,
like other poster mentioned,
size of ranch,
pen raised? how conditioned to people are they?
i wouldnt bash others for what they consider or dont consider hunting,
i bow hunt, should i call all gun hunters cheaters?
if you look for natural pinch points such as water , and various other borders that can act as a fence,
is that cheating?
food plots/feeders?

as for guided hunts,
is it hunting to have some one else take you to a spot where THEY know the animals will be,
tell you where to set up,
and then tell you to shoot, shoot, take the shot!!!.

Alltlk4

Points well taken. I believe it just a section, maybe a little more. Not thousands of acres. Ok, it could be harsh to call it not hunting. Maybe not my brand of hunting. I want to here other opinions whether they or in agreement with me or not and I respect them. Maybe I was a little smug to belittle the guy. It would probably be fun to see all those deer but I am against it.

Terasec - you are right, it is a slippery slope. I am sure other people say I am not hunting when it is gun season. I guess it is all point of view. I just wanted to check others point of view. Maybe I should not be so judgemental but some of the things he said we a little ridiculous and got me hot under the collar. He saw pen raised deer no different than wild deer, just the way they were raised. Well then that is totally different, raised in a pen and in the wild are different. Go turn a zoo tiger out in africa. He would not do so well. I guess now I am rambling. thanks for the input.

Terasec

can understand your reaction
have the same reaction when i hear fenced and pen,
not really hunting,
but at the end of the day,
they spent day in the woods, got a deer to fill the freezer,
all legally, didnt take from wild deer population,
is it really that bad?

BarnesX.308

Pen raised deer that have just been turned loose - I would say that's not real hunting. Still hunting, but not real hunting.

Now, if you had several thousand acres within a fence and the deer were born and raised in the woods (not a pen) then I can see it being more like real hunting.

We have 3500 acres and I really only hunt a couple hundred of it. It would make no difference at all if the borders were fenced or just posted signs.

timbercruiser

Depending on the type of terrain and ground cover on a section of land you could walk for days and never see a deer, depending on the deer population. It is her first time attempting to shoot a deer, wish her well and tell her to have a good time. She may enjoy the time and become a open/free lands hunter where all the top hunters go.

HuntingKS

It's shooting a deer. A fine activity, nothing wrong with it, but not within my definition of "hunting."

BikerRN

I agree.

otsa560

I guess to each their own. Some people like to shoot deer I'd rather hunt deer.