RE: The Crossbow Controversy
 

Agreed 100% on the hunting part Buckforme.
On tyhat you are correct. My point is at the moment of the shot the crossbow is a big edge. I'm not talking from one side or the other here. I hunt with both! How many here can say they have hands on experience with both?

RE: The Crossbow Controversy
 

your are really getting pretty funny. ha! ha! stabilizers,silent arrow rests, vibration shocks,arrow guides,laser sights,longer arrows. is this enough or do you need to write it down.

RE: The Crossbow Controversy
 

The devices that hold a compound at full draw are illegal every place a crossbow is. It eliminates the fundamental difference that you continue to ignore because you have no answer.

RE: The Crossbow Controversy
 

In my posts i have stated i use both. So i can play on your level. I have a x-bow and a compound bow, and i have killed deer with both. Its a matter of preference for me when i use one or the other based on my stand that day, the terrain, etc.... I just dont agree that just because the moment of the shot is different they need thier own season. Either way it would not affect me, but i dont like the division just because of the release and draw. You gotta admit the compound does have some nifty gadgets available to it, whats next, bows with gadgets have to get thier own season because it gives them an edge over longbows, or generic compounds. The focus should be on ethical hunting and respect for the "hunt"

The outdoors is yours, treat it with RESPECT!!!

RE: The Crossbow Controversy
 

bt- the cocking device for a compound is not illegal in texas at this point. so your statement is wrong. you prob have one of those cocking devices but will not admit it.

RE: The Crossbow Controversy
 

Dep
You're kidding right?

Silent arrow rests: they even got em for longbows. Oh and a crossbow has that.

Stabilizers: OK but a crossbow would have em if it helped

Vibration shocks: huh? I assume your talkin about stabilzers again.

Lazer sights: Illegal where I hunt but can be adapted to crossbows too

Longer arrows: Huh again? Thats just plain ridiculous!

RE: The Crossbow Controversy
 

you asked for themand i gave them. the crossbow does not have an arrow rest. it sits upon the frame itself.no cushion. the crossbow does not have a stabilizer and is not made to have one.if you do have both then you should know that the crossbow arrows,bolts, are shoter than a compound.ypu once again showed your lack of crossbow knowledge.

RE: The Crossbow Controversy
 

Buckfor
You are in Ontario where I have hunted a time or two. It's a big province, I know.
My issue is probably not an issue where you are. Here in Pa we have 1,000,000 hunters 350,000 of which are bowhunters. The concern here is that a LOT of thse 650,000 gun hunters will take up the easy weapon and yes, shorten the bow season. In an area like your where,i suspect there are relatively few hunters per square mile it would be far less of a problem. Putting the crossbow in with all bows probably makes sense where you are.

RE: The Crossbow Controversy
 

You know what Dep, I wonder if you would consider becoming a spokesman for the crossbow lobby here in Pa. I'd love to have you be their spokesman. It would assure us that we'd never have to worry about it any more.

RE: The Crossbow Controversy
 

i would love to have you come to texas with your vast knowledge. bow hunting would surely be looked upon differentlt. oh yes. another gimmick for compounds is the ring that keeps the arrow from falling off the arrow rest. did you not know that either?

RE: The Crossbow Controversy
 

BTBowhunter; I like your analogy of the inline to other black powder guns. In fact you could expand it:

flintlock to cap lock to inline
longbow to recurve to compound to crossbow

All the first are blackpowder, all the last are bows. Each one takes different skills and the list gets easier from left to right.

When it comes time to decide whether to let crossbows in the Pa bow season consider this: You may have a shorter bow season with crossbows included but you may have 500,000 archers voicing their opinion for you when you need it.

By the way; I'm impressed that Buck Magnet has come as far he has in accepting that crossbows have a place. I mean that. I wouldn't mind taking him crossbow hunting in Ontario some time, then he can get skunked like me when I refuse to shoot over 25 yds.

Dan O.

RE: The Crossbow Controversy
 

Dan O
Youve made about the only point that could be good for PA about crossbows. I don't know about all of you in the various states and provinces but thank goodness the crossbow is widely opposed here. I and I think most Pa bowhunters would not mind a seperate season. We have many days available that could be used for a seperate crossbow season. Before gun season by the way. What's wrong with that?

BTW the only muzzleloaders allowed in Pa are flintlocks! And most ML hunters are happy to keep it that way!

Edited by - btbowhunter on 01/23/2002 20:13:55

RE: The Crossbow Controversy
 

I think that crossbows are perfectly ethical to take game with. However i dont think they should be used in the same season as other bows, except for disabled hunters. My opinion is if your not disabled shoot a compound,recurve or long bow. A cross bow doesnt have to be drawn back before you shoot at game. Its just cocked and ready to fire just like a rifle. I dont have any problems with them, but I will never use one.

RE: The Crossbow Controversy
 

why should there be another or seperate season?they both shoot arrows with broadheads. the only difference in arrows is the length. should eah brand have a different season? should different caliber rifles have their own season?the caliber does not matter and neither should the crossbow.

RE: The Crossbow Controversy
 

KYbowhunter
Absolutely right nothing unethical or unsportsmanlike about crossbows. They are a legitimate weapon but a unique weapon and for other than the disabled they deserve their own season if there is enough interest. The suggestion made here in Pa that makes sense was to put em in with our flintlock season and call it primitive weapon season:)

Edited by - btbowhunter on 01/23/2002 21:09:00

RE: The Crossbow Controversy
 

Dep
you still havent come up with anything proving your wounding claims.
Still there?

RE: The Crossbow Controversy
 

if it's legal then go for it!

Edited by - beretta390 on 01/23/2002 21:23:51

RE: The Crossbow Controversy
 

<img src=icon_smile_8ball.gif border=0 align=middle> Magic 8 ball, anyone..... <img src=icon_smile_approve.gif border=0 align=middle>

RE: The Crossbow Controversy
 

In Minnesota you can hunt with a crossbow by disability permit only. 3 years ago I was hit head on by a drunk driver and besides shattering my leg and breaking my pelvis it tore my decending aeorta. When they operated to repair my aeorta they cut pretty much on the inside of my shoulder blade between it and my spine and over under my armpit in an L shaped incision. That left my Latissimus muscle very weak and I have a hard time holding a bow up for very long. I didn't qualify for a permit but If I would have met the states qualifications I would have gladly used one.

RE: The Crossbow Controversy
 

deerslayer still, you come on down to arkansas i got one you can use . legally! no permit and no one will whine! i even have a place you will stick one !

RE: The Crossbow Controversy
 

Deerslayer
Around here if your Doc says so, you get the permit and rightfully so!

RE: The Crossbow Controversy
 

bt- i have no idea why you are having so much problem reading. i will say it for the 3rd time. i got the info from the texas parks and wildlife division. do i need to go slower . all the other readers seened to find it. maybe that is the whole problem. you are having problems unseen here. you need to work on your argument because it is still very lame. you had rather use a weapon that leaves more wounded deer and you feel superior. give me a break. very lame!

RE: The Crossbow Controversy
 

Dep
once again Where is your proof? Where is this study? what were the parameters? What all weapons were studied? How was the study conducted. If this is legitimate, where was it publihed? Or did a park ranger tell you his opinion and that was that?
BTW what exactly is a vibration shock?
an arrow guide? No one at the local pro shops seem to know.
One more thing, I didn't start into this thread feeling superior to anyone, but you and you alone have changed that for me!

[Deleted]
 

[Deleted by Admins]

RE: The Crossbow Controversy
 

I use both the compound and the cross bow and i practice the same with both, i practice from all angles, heights, and only sight in both bows up to 30 yards. For me personnaly i wont shot any further....to many things can go wrong in the woods at a long distance. I wont even practice longer then 30 yards in my yard, because i dont want the temptation of &quot; I hit the target in the yard&quot; to come into play in the woods. I do agree there are strength in numbers however and we as hunters need to remember that

The outdoors is yours, treat it with RESPECT!!!

RE: The Crossbow Controversy
 

if you want the study from tpwd contact them. the shock i was referring to was on tv last week. it was described as a shock absorber to get rid of vibration. the arrow holder is a ring with little fingers on the inside. the arrowrests inside it to keep from falling off the rest. now doubt you knowledge of compounds.
mo man can do the same thing for sake of a debate. debate rules do noy have me having to fetch studies for you. i can tell you where and it is up to you.you and the other compounders seem to have a problem with facts and knowing your own equipment.

RE: The Crossbow Controversy
 

Well Dep,
since you have chosen not to answer, I went on a web searching the first 50 hits under a search for &quot;deer wounding study&quot; The only one that came up was the Camp Ripley Study.
The most comprehensive study on wounding ever made to date. It found that 87% of bow hit deer are recovered. The study only included conventional bows and no other weapon. The web address is

http://www.nbef.org/ripley.html

Wonder why I didn't find anything about a Texas study? Does one exist? If one does, why arent the results available on the net?
Maybe you can enlighten us on where you found it.

RE: The Crossbow Controversy
 

And what are the names of these wonderous new gadgets? Where can they be found besides on your TV? Would the little ring thing you spoke of by any chance perform the same function as the spring clip that keeps the bolt in your crossgun?

Edited by - btbowhunter on 01/24/2002 13:04:40

RE: The Crossbow Controversy
 

last time btbozo-i told you the name of who made the study. it is up to you if you want to find it.i have told you several time but you can not seem to read well.

RE: The Crossbow Controversy
 

i just looked at the study you referred to and you could not even get that right. it did include all bows. it even ask draw weights. it also said that deer found after a substantiated hit was 45%, not 85%.

RE: The Crossbow Controversy
 

This debate has remained relatively civil up until now...lets try to keep it that way. <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>

RE: The Crossbow Controversy
 

You obviously did not read the whole thing or the final conclusions. Even PETA was smart enough to remain silent when given the opportunity to dispute these findings. This study is held in the highest regard by the best wildlife biologists in the world but I guess you would still have a problem with the results.

Edited by - btbowhunter on 01/24/2002 13:13:29

Edited by - btbowhunter on 01/24/2002 13:23:42

RE: The Crossbow Controversy
 

Dep, was this study done in just Texas? How about a study for the entire country. That would be more accurate that just a Texas study. As for the comparing crossbows, let it go, it isn't going anywhere. Buf if you want to keep comparing them, lets just take a look at the Cabelas magazine. Hmmm, look at that, A Buckmaster MaxPoint Crossbow. Shoots 335 fps. A silent lock safety, hmmmm wasnt that you who said safteys on crossbows were very loud?. Lightweight molded one piece nylon stock and forearm. Hmmm, I thought crossbows were REALLY heavy. Hmmmm, the crank cocking device. It take a smooth 16 lbs of pressure to draw back the 175 pound draw weight. O yeah, Carbon Impact X-Bow Bolts. Weaver scope mounts, O MY, Would you look at the Excalibur Drop Zone Scope, 2.5 power multiples scope that allows you to ACCURATELY compensate for trajectory up to 50 yards. Yep, his has neat little dots that are marked off at 10, 20, 30, 40, 50 yards. Wow, I wish they had that for my compound. Hmmmmmmm, It looks like Simms Solid limb Limb Saver works on crossbows. Reduces vibration up to 65% and noise up to 12db on both crossbows and compound bows. Hmm, wasn't it you that was complaining about crossbows not having Vibration Dampeners? Hmmmm, wow, The YardagePro laser rangefinder could be rigged on to your crossbow. O my, simms String Leeches can be put on crossbows, but wait, that is another vibration dampener. WOW, its amazing what you see when you just look. Hmmmm, as for your comments on compound bows having arrow rests, DONT YOU GET IT, your arrow rest is the body of the crossbow. For your information, most of the arrow rests that people use aren't like the ones you describe. Most are two prongs that you set the arrow upon. The one you describe wears away fletchings. Just a little helpful information for you.

Good Luck This Season: Buck Magnet
P.S. Only Chuck Adams can sit at home and see deer so get into the woods. =;^)

RE: The Crossbow Controversy
 

why do you use a study as a reference and then deny its findings. this is really halarious.

RE: The Crossbow Controversy
 

Tyhe only place that 45% apppears in that study is &quot;% of substantiated hit deer recovered by another hunter&quot; The total recovery rate is 87% or the lost rate is 13%.
I invite all reading this thread to read the entire results and draw your own conclusions.<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>

RE: The Crossbow Controversy
 

Just went on tpwd's web site. Searched under deer wounding. <img src=icon_smile_shock.gif border=0 align=middle> 0 hits out of 15,000+ documents<img src=icon_smile_shock.gif border=0 align=middle>

The web address is

http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/



Edited by - btbowhunter on 01/24/2002 13:29:49

RE: The Crossbow Controversy
 

you are not worth the trouble any more. your posts are a joke. you mistate things and ignore pointed questions.i seriouslt doubt your hunting ethics and maybe that is where the problem lies.antis are looking for people like you to boost there ideas. you think about yourself and not the sport of hunting. you feel superior to other hunters and feel you should have a seperate season. i propose this-each brand have its own season. each pull weight have its own season.see how stupid it sounds. get alife and promote the sport of hunting and not yourself.

RE: The Crossbow Controversy
 

In honoring the spirit of Franks request and the rules of this forum I will not respond in kind. BTW continually claiming someone has no knowledge is akin to name calling. I have cited the only study to be found in an extensive web search and quoted some of the results. I invite anyone reading this to help me find this elusive Texas study. I don't know where else to look<img src=icon_smile_question.gif border=0 align=middle>
We have strayed from the original subject. modern rifle is not an inline is not a flintlock is not a crossbow is not a compound is not a longbow is not a spear. Ther are fundamental differences which must be addressed. Not all rules fit in all places. All the other weapons are pretty much seperated into seperate seasons with the exception of traditional/compound bows. I and, it appears most other bowhunters feel there is too large a difference between compounds and crossbows to put them in the same class. I for one hope that it stays that way.

RE: The Crossbow Controversy
 

Have I seen this debate before ? I wonder ...


I have shot them all I think, rifles, hanguns, shotguns, muzzleloaders, crossbows compounds and now longbows/recurves.

Do crossbows have a hunting advantage ? In that you don't have to draw and release them, absolutely and thats a HUGE advantage. I never realized how much so until I went to a longbow, where you have to draw with the shot right there, you cannot draw while its heads behind a tree and wait 20-30 second or two minutes. Huge difference guys. Crossbows are even easier than compounds in this respect. Speed ? Compounds win. Accuracy ? Compounds win. Distance ? Compounds win. Ease of use ? Crossbows, but the gap lessens every year.

Crossbows - use them in gun season, maybe in a combined muzzlelloader season and let those that are truly unable to shoot a compound/recurve/longbow use them. Thats an opinion from a guy whos shot them, knows them and hunts in a state where they're legal.

Oh yeah, and cross bows go a LONG way back in history, they are very tradional in that sense.

RE: The Crossbow Controversy
 

dep, how about this, we make one hunting season a year, umm one saturday in the middle of june, every weapon allowed. You can use, fully automatic, semi-automatic, any other rifle. Pistols, Bows, Crossbows, inlines, muzzleloaders, spears, tanks, assult rifle, rockets, grenade launchers, knives, throwing axes, dinner forks, how about spoons too. Will that make you happy. All hunting in one. Any animal is legal for that day. Yet again you give more personal attacks. If you get so disturbed by BT not finding the web site, then give it to him. What, don't you have it? What, why didn't you answer back to my post from earlier? I don't feel superior to crossbow hunters, but GOD, I do feel superior to a hunter like you.

Good Luck This Season: Buck Magnet
P.S. Only Chuck Adams can sit at home and see deer so get into the woods. =;^)