RE: The Crossbow Controversy
 

you can call what ever border you want. with a compound bow you draw before the deer gets on top of you unlessthey sneaked up on you.not all crossbows are at full draw before shooting. the crossbow only has limb savers and a scope that is not very accurate. now who has the advantage?you would have to take off all those bells and whistles to come down to a crossbow.where is it stated that a compoud bow user is more superior than a crossbow user?there are more wounded deer found from a compound bow rather than a crossbow. they do not have the advantage and extras like a compound. if you are truly wanting to be a actual bow hunter then get a RECURVE and shoot wooden arrows.

RE: The Crossbow Controversy
 

How long could you hold a bow set at lets say, 75 pounds with a 65% let off. NOT THAT LONG. The deer have to be close for you to draw, just as close as when you raise the crossbow to aim. A compound bow makes noise while drawing back, the arrow rubs on the rest, the string vibrates.... This is more reasons why the crossbow has a HUGE advantage over the crossbow. Now, you said that a scoped crossbow isn't very accurate, what is the point in letting it be used then? If it isn't as accurate as a compound bow, why let it in?


Good Luck This Season: Buck Magnet
P.S. Only Chuck Adams can sit at home and see deer so get into the woods. =;^)

RE: The Crossbow Controversy
 

why should compounds be allowed when crossbows have been around longer.the crossbow makes more noise thsn a compound and has severe vibration when fired. ths scope is another tool to use just like your site pins. the crossbow is much heavier and harder to hold for a long period of time. you really sound like you are just not that familar with the crossbow.you speak of the 75 pound pull on the compound. mt crossbow has a 175 lb pull so whats your point. do you think it is easy for a disabled person to pull back 175lbs when he or she can barely walk to their stand.my eyesight is also bad and the scope allows me to get more of a target like the site pins do for you.

i have nothing against compounds or recurves. it is just the people that feel they are superior to those that have to use a crossbow.

RE: The Crossbow Controversy
 

Hey dep, GET OVER IT, nobody said, implied, or feels that they are superior to someone who, for whatever reason, uses a crossbow! That never entered into this conversation, until now!

RE: The Crossbow Controversy
 

I have nothing against crossbow users. I do believe it is easier to use than a compound bow, but is still more of a challenge than a rifle. I have seen cranks that make it easy to pull back a crossbow. I agree that crossbows are heavier and you can't hold them in position for that long, but a compound at full draw is VERY hard to hold. If the deer stops behind a twig and you can't hold it, you must let down the bow, if this doesn't scare the deer, you can try drawing back, aiming and releasing, but that situation probablly won't present itself. A crossbow user can raise up, if the deer stops, he just slowly lowers the crossbow, then he can slowly raise it, aim, and shoot. This would be much easier to do with crossbow compared to the compound would it not?

Really, I don't think anything badly of people who use crossbows, if thats your perogative, go for it. I don't however feel that they should be allowed in regular archery season, if they are, I wont care. I do think that in Pennsylvania, the First week of archery season should be for crossbows. Then, extend archery season another week at the end of the season. Let the last week of the regular archery season open to crossbows.

Good Luck This Season: Buck Magnet
P.S. Only Chuck Adams can sit at home and see deer so get into the woods. =;^)

RE: The Crossbow Controversy
 

i never asked to be disabled and i had my hunting severly limited until a crossbow was reccomended. it brought back more excitement than i had in years. i got to get close to the deer again. years ago i used a bear grizzly-56"-55 lb pull. now try to hold that back for a period of time. i hear from compound users that say we should not be allowed to hunt but at certain times. i have yet to hear from anyone with a good answer as to why. i wish the crossbows had all the gimmiks that a compound has so it would be easier. we still have to calculate the distance just like you do with a site pin. there is no difference. it is the people that feel there hunting ways is more important or superior. i have hunted many times with my crossbow but have never killed yet.i did kill when i used my recurve bow. the crossbow is much harder and bulkier to use. you stated something about movement being noticed. try moving a bulky crossbow without being seen.since the compound had many advantages over the crossbow why shouldn't it be moved to its own season away from bow season. the recurve is the only real bow.i bet you use carbon or aluminum arrows and not wood.probablt use mechanical broadheads also.

RE: The Crossbow Controversy
 

i would rather hear a big BOOM when i shoot at deer steak on the hoof!!! i really dont see why argue the issue if it floats your boat to hunt with a compound bow float by all means . but if you like a crossbow someones going to yank at your plug. look i believe it is far more ethical to shoot a animal than stick one. if arrows were so good armys would still be using them. and if you look at your traditional archery history you see crossbows not compound bows. i have both compound and crossbow i like to hunt with both. the crossbow is easier alot more stealthy. yeah i just have release the safety ,aim and shoot.but i still have to consider range and compensate accordingly . but i dont feel bad at all. but i still would rather go boom.

RE: The Crossbow Controversy
 

Ok, Why a special season for crossbows?
I live here in Ohio where crossbows are legal. I own crossbow (I have yet to take a deer with it), compound, and recurve (I don’t hunt with).
The number of deer harvested with any kind of bow is still very small when compared to the numbers taken during gun (shotgun) season. The only effect that I see a separate season having, is limiting the chances for some hunters to get out into the woods.
Keeping them separate in the record books is one thing. I don’t think that anyone believes that hunting with a longbow and crossbow are equal. But I can’t support anything that would limit anyone opportunities to enjoy a safe ethical hunt.

RE: The Crossbow Controversy
 

First, crossbows should be OK for the truly disabled in Archery season but that's where it has to stop. The difference is that the crossbow is drawn before game is present. I used a crossbow in gun season this past season in Pa special regulations area where guns arent permitted. I hunt suburbia in a deer control program where a body count is expected of us. Once the gun season rolls around here, deer flock into this area to avoid the gunners in adjoining townships. They are extremely wary and spooky this time of year. I decided the crossbow might give an edge and bought one. I killed 3 deer with it under these conditions. Two of which would have walked if I'd had to draw a conventional bow. My point? The crossbow gives an edge over a compound, recurve etc because it is cocked when the game arrives. Give it its' own season, but it's not a bow. It's a short range gun!

[Deleted]
 

[Deleted by Admins]

RE: The Crossbow Controversy
 

Big Country;

you're not average. You've practiced a little bit. I know too many weekend warriors who won't practice. I believe it's better for the deer (and less ammunition for antihunters) to let them have a weapon that they can be accurate with, with little practice. When you're hunting deer in someone's backyard you want clean kills. Now if you could just get people to sight in their crossbows like they're supposed to sight in their rifles, half the battle would be won.

I like crossbow hunting. You have to match all the knowledge of site selection, odour, camoflage, wind, etc, to get your heart beating when get a glimse of a deer coming into range.

Dan O.

RE: The Crossbow Controversy
 

i must have missed something with my crossbow. i never knew it shot bullets and was a short range gun. i thought it shot bolt or arrows. i thought it used broadheads just like a bow. i thought it used aluminum arrows like a bow. i have not found any carbon arrows for it yet. where do i get the shells for this short range gun.your knowledge of crossbows is severly lacking. what about the new bow-tech compound bow that shoots almost 350fps. that is more than any crossbow i have seen.the compound has many more add ons to help it than the crossbow. the crossbow was here before the compound ever was. what was the purpose of the compound? same as the crossbow.

RE: The Crossbow Controversy
 

Sure, crossbows have been around longer than compound bows, but look at it this way, a compound bow is an upscale version of a recurve, the crossbow you have is an upscale version of the oldest crossbows. Which upscale version of bow has been around longer???? Yep, compound.

Good Luck This Season: Buck Magnet
P.S. Only Chuck Adams can sit at home and see deer so get into the woods. =;^)

RE: The Crossbow Controversy
 

i do not ever remember seeing a recurve with pulleys and site pins. which has changed the most and is not as near as the priginal. the compound is the answer.the compound has many more gadgets than the crossbow. the crossbow is more like the original than the compound. the compound should be stopped or put in a season of its own.the compound needs many more gadgets than the crossbow ever did.

RE: The Crossbow Controversy
 

Wow, I didn't realize I would begin such a tremendous reaction with this topic.I simply say this; The skill to hunting is getting the deer close enough for a shot and as long as that shot comes from a weapon that is legal, then the weapon of choice should not be an issue. I use my crossbow, downed three deer with it in five years without a miss, and I will continue to use it without shame. It is legal and that is all that should matter.
Bozman

RE: The Crossbow Controversy
 

a lot of the compound users sound like anti's. the antis use the phrase DIVIDE AND CONQUER. the compounds are wanting to split us up. we are all hunters and should be together, not divided as the compounders want

RE: The Crossbow Controversy
 

dep214, your last post was the MOST RIDICULOUS, IGNORANT, post that I have ever seen. That is all I am going to say.

Good Luck This Season: Buck Magnet
P.S. Only Chuck Adams can sit at home and see deer so get into the woods. =;^)

RE: The Crossbow Controversy
 

i never called anyone any names and will not stoop to that level. the only people wanting to split hunbters up is antis and compound users. why is that? we need to stick together instead od seperating. that is just what the antis want. it always seems that when someone can not deny something they resort to calling names.what are the compound users afraid of? why all the different seasons?i have never heard the same argument with rifles and scopes. must be saying a different season for different callibers.what is so different between the crossbow and compound? the compound has the let off and the crossbow does not.not all crossbows are cocked long before the deer or animal arrives.the compound draws back in anticipation of the deer or animal so what is the difference. it does not make any sense. we shoot the same arrows,or bolts, but some are just shorter. give me break.

RE: The Crossbow Controversy
 

No, your statement is ridiculous. The majority of archers are compound bow users. I don't know of A SINGLE COMPOUND BOW USER THAT WANTS TO SPLIT US UP. Why should a crossbow be allowed. Give me one good reason. Why can't a non disabled person shoot a compound?

Good Luck This Season: Buck Magnet
P.S. Only Chuck Adams can sit at home and see deer so get into the woods. =;^)

RE: The Crossbow Controversy
 

give me one good reason a crossbow should not be allowed. it is no different than a compound with all the bells and whistles. if you are not trying to split hunters up the why call for a different season?why should just a disabled hunter be allowed to hunt.that is like saying only a recurve can be used in bow season since compound is not same thing.

RE: The Crossbow Controversy
 

i have to partially agree with dep214. it sounds as if you COMPOUNDER onlys just want your special season. you special ? disabled of sorts? your weapon of choice so inadequate that you need a special season that would exclude crossbows. i have seen this arguement before and it does tend to bring out compounder onlys and lets them get on there soapbox and degrade anyone that uses a crossbow during there archery only season. crossbows are legal in arkansas as archery equipment and i hunt with a horton hunter supreme . i also have a jennings carbon extreme that i enjoy hunting with. i like shooting the bow more for fun than hunting . i tend to bring home venison more often with the crossbow . and for that matter my best friend who has hunted with a bow for 20 + years ,just bought a horton nitro and loves it . killed a doe in oct. with it . he got rid of his matthews (getting another though)and just crossbowed. you see noone that hunts with me said anything negative about it. we look at it as hunting and thats cool. if i had a member who did raise b.s. about the fact that we hunted with crossbows they would be finding another place to hunt. and in that same line i have a variety of rifles , im a gun nut, but i would not tell someone they are wrong for hunting with a 30/30, because i hunt with a 270 ,308 or 7 stw or some more powerful caliber than theres . as long as they know there weapons limitations and are good with it go hunting. i think the crossbow vs archery special season debate is really easy go by what your state game and fish allows. and crossbowers if your state doesnt allow crossbows during archery season then start hounding them. make them either include you or give you to a special long season

RE: The Crossbow Controversy
 

TO ME IT DOESN'T MATTER WETHER OR NOT YOU HUNT WITH A CROSSBOW OR A COMPOUND OR ANY TYPE OF BOW, JUST AS LONG AS THE ANIMAL WAS TAKEN LEGALY

RE: The Crossbow Controversy
 

Lets see, a crossbow has a stock like a gun, a trigger like a gun,a safety like a gun some have scopes like a gun, but most of all it's always loaded and cocked like a gun! In Pa we have a million hunters and around 350,000 bowhunters. The concern here is that thousands will flock to the easy to shoot crossbow. Thats fine, so long as it has its' own season and is regulated as such. The 350,000 bowhunters in this state shouldn't have to worry about their present season being shortened because a totally different weapon raises the kill rate!

BTW, every traditional archer I know is even more rabidly anti crossbow than I could ever be. Also, a statewide survey here said that 80+% of PA hunters are against the legalizing the crossbow in archery season.

RE: The Crossbow Controversy
 

lets see. the compound has sight pins, the compound has has a let off,the compound has limb savers for quietness,the compound has a trigger release,the compound has pulleys. i have never seen a recurve with any of thses. it sounds like it is just like the crossbow.why do compound bow users feel so superior? why don't the compound users take all the gimmicks off so it will be like traditional archery. all these gimmicks are onlu used by modern folks for it to be easier. woops! once again the compound sounds just like the crossbow users.your argument has no merit because you site the same thing a compound has equipped with.

RE: The Crossbow Controversy
 

bt bowhunter-
you forgot to say that there are many more deer found wounded with a compound bow than any other weapon used.

RE: The Crossbow Controversy
 

Okay dep, but what do you think is going to happen if you allow people to take "the easy road" and use crossbows. Look at it this way, not everyone has the amount of respect for the game animals as the people on here. You are going to have a TON of hunters using crossbows that shouldn't be. If they had a compound bow in their hands but they shouldn't be using that, they are probablly going to miss.

Good Luck This Season: Buck Magnet
P.S. Only Chuck Adams can sit at home and see deer so get into the woods. =;^)

RE: The Crossbow Controversy
 

remove all the extras from the compound and then hunt. will it be as easy? no! samething in using a compound. the fact steal remains that many more deer are found wounded with a COMPOUND than any other weapon used.why do you use all the compund extras? for the easy road?

RE: The Crossbow Controversy
 

Okay, now take all of the goodies off of your cross bow. Take off the scope, take of EVERYTHING go back to 100 years ago and tell me which one is going to result in fewer wounds. You are not looking at the fact that the crossbow you speak of has those neat little gadgets that you hate so much. Take away the composite limbs, the braided string, the scopes. It is not a bow, in the form that it is now. Sure, they WERE bows about 200 years ago, now they are MORE LIKE a short range gun than a bow.

Good Luck This Season: Buck Magnet
P.S. Only Chuck Adams can sit at home and see deer so get into the woods. =;^)

RE: The Crossbow Controversy
 

please tell me where i buy these bullets for the short range gun. you refuse to admit all the gimmicks that the compound has and the condemn the crossbow for having the same thing. again more deer are found woynded by the compound than any other weapon used.a scope does not gaurantee you a perfect shot just like the SIGHT PIN does not gaurantee the compound user.it is just another tool to help shoot better.the crossbow has a trigger and the compound has a trigger release. what's you point? you keep condeming the crossbow for having the same thing as a compound.

RE: The Crossbow Controversy
 

I agree, and I have never said that there aren't a lot of gadgets for compound bows, there are TONS out there. Wann know what my bow is. It is a Browning Mirage, I have a cobra fiber optic sight on it, o yeah, a bear puff. As for a release, I used a cheap 6 dollar Tru Fire that is held in the hand, you push the "trigger button" with your thumb. Thats it. No quiver, I carry my quiver in, no stabilizers, no simms vibrations lab silencers. My arrow, hmm, a 31" Easton xx75 Gamegetter II tipped with a 100 grain N.A.P. Thunderhead. It doesn't sound like I use all of those gadgets. You have to think about that too, how many people have a bow that EVERY little gadget on it from the silicon bead filled stablizer, to the laser range finder? I don't think too many do. Now, the crossbow has a TRIGGER, not a trigger release. I am sure that you won't understand this, but there is a big difference. The trigger release of a compound bow users is attached to the arm and the string. When at full draw, the archer is holding back roughly 35 pounds. How much weight are crossbow users holding back when they have their finger on the trigger? Sure, the crossbow may be heavier than the compound, but the compound is still very heavy. Plus, if it was heavier wouldn't that allow it to apply more pressure to your arm enabling it to be more steady?

Good Luck This Season: Buck Magnet
P.S. Only Chuck Adams can sit at home and see deer so get into the woods. =;^)

RE: The Crossbow Controversy
 

you are still condeming the crossbow for having the same as a compound. if you think a compound weighs the same are close to a crossbow you are sadly mistaken.we both shoot arrows or bolts, have sight help, and use a trigger mechanism for a release.oh yeah, the crossbow does not have the nice arrow rest also. it just lays on the crossbow itself.i use a horton hunter express. you have failed to mention that crossbows use sight pins also.you are still saying the things wrong with the crossbow are the things that a compound has.look at what you are saying. the crossbow has been around much longer than the compound. what do you use the laser sight for? prob to help you get a better shot just like the crossbow.

RE: The Crossbow Controversy
 

This is going nowhere. You don't seem to understand that you DON'T hold your bow at full draw while waiting for deer to come and that a trigger release, which still means that the hunter is holding weight, is harder to use than a crossbow where you don't hold weigth and you can raise it at anytime.

Good Luck This Season: Buck Magnet
P.S. Only Chuck Adams can sit at home and see deer so get into the woods. =;^)

RE: The Crossbow Controversy
 

what is your point? what does that matter in who can hunt oe who should hunt? yo u still use the same arguments against the crossbow that you use on a compound. they both use arrows of different lengths. they use the SAME broadheads.then the compound gets crazy. it has all kinds od gimmicks to make it easier to use. yet you condemn the crossbow for the same reasons.you once again do not comment on the fact that compounds are the source of many more wounded deer than any other weapon used. knowing this fact you still act superior to a crossbow. give me a break.

RE: The Crossbow Controversy
 

Okay, you want to talk about compound bow losses. That is probablly due to the fact that a compound bow is a hard weapon to use and it is mostly due to the fact that there are hunters out there that are lazy. What do you think will happen if crossbows become legal. Those lazy hunters who use compounds and injure deer are going to look at the crossbow for an easier solution and end up wounding more animals. Your gadget idea is stupid. Compounds do have gadgest, BUT SO DO CROSSBOWS. My whole point is when you look at an entirely base model, the crossbow IS easier to use.

Good Luck This Season: Buck Magnet
P.S. Only Chuck Adams can sit at home and see deer so get into the woods. =;^)

RE: The Crossbow Controversy
 

Ok i have read each and every post on this subject, and what i dont understand is WHY do crossbows need thier own season? Are the compounders worried about not being able to harvest a deer if ther are more people in the woods? I really think that is the issue here, wether or not its a bow, its not a bow, i dont think has you guys so worried. I think its the selfish sense of "my woods, my time" phobia that has your worried about "extra hunters" in the woods you hunt. I think that is pathetic! I hunt with both, a compound and a crossbow, and each has its advantages, however whatever "bow" you use, you must prepare, scout, pay attention to wind, trails, stand placement, etc.... and be ethical. I would never take a shot with my crossbow over 25 yards, first off the bolt/arrow does tend to drop off, the string makes a loud noise and the movement to come to sight is "wider" then a compound is. The compound you draw back at a time when you think the deer will move into shooting range...which would be what....0 to 30 yards, and the let off is what 60, 70, 80 percent? A crossbow, you will lift and sight, take off safety, when you think the deer will move into range...whick would be what..0 to 30 yards, no let off...just about 6 to 12lbs at shoulder hieght...for however long that deer takes to move into range. If the deer stops, you still hold, you dont let the bow down, becasue if he moved closer he is more likely to "pick you off" when raising the bow again. AND any of todays modern let offs is equal to holding 8 to 12 lbs.

I just find it sad to see a division of hunters for the sole reason of pure selfishness, thats all it is. We are all shooting deer at the same range with bows...we are all preparing the same way...

The outdoors is yours, treat it with RESPECT!!!

RE: The Crossbow Controversy
 

where are the gadgets on a crossbow? please show me. so far i have not seen anywhere as much as a compound.the source od found wounded deer is still atributed to the compound bow. not a crossbow.once again if you think a crossbow is easier to use you are sadly mistaken. you have to use the same things as a compound in shooting. you have to use the windage and ability to shoot. you use a sight pin just as i do. that is where the similarity ends. you have many more things to make your shooting easier.with all these things you superior compounders still lead in leaving more wounded deer than any other weapon used.maybe this is saying that the compound should not be used.the compound can and is equipped with many more advantages.if it is a short ranged gun then show me the bullets and where to load it.

RE: The Crossbow Controversy
 

Sure, that probablly has something to do with it. It isn't a bow. That is my whole point. No matter what anyone says, you can get away with unshouldering a crossbow easier than letting down a compound. It is an unfair advantage to the compound/recurve/long bow shooters that shouldn't be tolerated. Plus, why should you be allowed. I don't believe that crossbow organizations are contributing NEARLY as much money as compound organizations. It is a thing that is totally unnessacary. There is absolutely no point to bringing crossbows into Pa. Why change our season around and mess up the majority of archers long/recurve/compound to bring in a TINY group of hunters. Here is a question that I want answered. No crossbow user has answered this, WHY NOT SHOOT A COMPOUND IF YOU WANT TO BOW HUNT? I am totally for disabled people being allowed to use a crossbow, but that is it.

Good Luck This Season: Buck Magnet
P.S. Only Chuck Adams can sit at home and see deer so get into the woods. =;^)

RE: The Crossbow Controversy
 

Dep
Apparently you dont know a lot of bowhunters. Ive seen Sights, silencers, stabilizers and releases used on recurves. I also know a few guys who shoot their compounds without a sight, silencer stabilzer or release. The point you continue to ignore is really the main difference between crossguns and bows. IT DOESN"T HAVE TO BE DRAWN WHEN GAME IS PRESENT. That is a huge advantage in a hunting situation. The other issue is that any monkey can pick up a crossbow and shoot with it reasonable accuracy immediately. A real bow ANY real bow with as many bells and whistles as you want still takes some time ,practice and dedication to get good with it.

Edited by - btbowhunter on 01/22/2002 12:58:57

RE: The Crossbow Controversy
 

One more thing Mr Dep. You stated that more deer are found wounded by crossbows than any other weapon. Just where did you get that information? What documentation can be found to back up that statement?

RE: The Crossbow Controversy
 

Ewcellent post BT, it just amuses me how people can say that drawing back a bow instead of raising a crossbow and shouldering it isn't a hard thing to do. These people obviously have no idea what they are talking about. IT IS HARDER to do. They don't seem to realize that all compounds don't come with all the bells and whistles, they just assume it. They don't realize that they same stuff they are complaining about people putting on compounds can be put on their crossbows. How does age of the weapon matter? They want us to listen to there comments, but they don't want to listen to ours. And when you proove there point to be wrong, they ignore it or don't register it and keep on complaining.

Good Luck This Season: Buck Magnet
P.S. Only Chuck Adams can sit at home and see deer so get into the woods. =;^)