RE: The Crossbow Controversy
 

I am on both sides of this issue due to the fact i use both. ITs a matter of preference for me and what stand i am hunting that day. But your question about why would crossbow hunters not want to hunt with a compound???? Why not? We have a choice i guess, but what i can gather from you and your posts is a selfish sense of not wanting other hunters in the woods with you during your so called bow only time. I dont agree with that logic. I dont know about all the bells and whistles that some of you are referring too, but i do know this...... the mechanism of releasing the arrow is only a small part of the "actual hunt" and all the preperation leading up to your day in the woods. You focus on the release, the draw, etc..... But in reality thats only a small part of the "hunt" Buckmagnet, on another post here, you define your idea hunting is being out in the woods, enjoying mother nature, watching wildlife etc...... , that should be afforded to all hunters right?? Or just not on your time and in your woods?

And the "monkey" reference was un called for. It goes to show that you (compounders (and i use one) hold yourselves superior to other hunters. You should think about what impact your comments have on the hunting society.

The outdoors is yours, treat it with RESPECT!!!

Edited by - buckforme on 01/22/2002 14:50:45

RE: The Crossbow Controversy
 

the stats came from the texas parks and wildlife association. what difference does it have who has an advantage. will it be next that a cheap scope does not have the same advantage as an expensive scope. or will it be one brand over another. will it be a compound with extras over one without extras. you have not given one single reason over why crossbows should not be used. you have just said why you do not like them.crossbow users have just as much of a right as compounders. why do you call crossbow users a little group. size makes no difference. we should have the right to hunt just like you have the right.what threat does a crossbow pose that a compound does not. NONE!.is it that compounders never miss and always make a perfect shot? neither do crossbowers or gun shooters. you still have not given any reason as to why crossbowers pose a threat or should not be allowed. just because you do not like crossbowers does not mean they should not be allowed. where is the reason that makes you so scared of crossbowers. it sure isn't the trail of wounded deer that compounders leave behind.

RE: The Crossbow Controversy
 

i have never stooped to calling anyone names like MONKEY. i have just debated in a correct manner. that just shows what i have been saying,compounders feel superior to other hunters.

RE: The Crossbow Controversy
 

Buck Magnet: I use a recurve crossbow with no scope (just pins). It pulls back like a bow except that I must use both arms to pull back it's draw weight. It has 100% let off. It has a mechanical release that is actived by the trigger.

Don't get me wrong, you need more skill to shoot a compound than a crossbow. Not more hunting skill, but more bow skill. The same way a recurve or longbow with no mechanical release would be more difficult to shoot than a recurve.

I believe that unless you are dedicated to developing that skill the crossbow provides the better weapon for the average hunter.

If you compare this to fishing you've got the fly fishermen who tie their own flies, then the caster with artificial lures. Next is troller followed by the kid with a worm. Each level takes more skill in some ways but they all enjoy the sport.

Dan O.

RE: The Crossbow Controversy
 

Boy has this heated up from the friendly topic it started out as.

First I'd like to say that I've never hunted with a arrow for anything.

Buck Magnet asks,

1. Why don't you use a bow if you're not disabled? Time. So what. Some people don't have as much spare time. This means they shouldn't be allowed to go when they do have the rare oppertunity? Get real. I think those saying you don't want to share the woods have nailed your REAL agenda.

2. BM states that a compound has a 35lb. weight to hold. Now while I'm not a archer even I know better than that. The newest compounds have a 83% let off. If shooting a 100 lb. bow you'd still only be holding 17 lb. A extreame example I'll grant you. But so was your claim that a compound requires you to hold 35lbs.

3. Your claim that there is a HUGE differance in favor of the X-bow is weak, at best. With all the silencers, realeases (triggers), high teck sights and exotic arrow materials now used by/on compounds they have VERY LITTLE in common with a long or recurve bow. So WHY ARE they OK in archery season but not the X-bow. NO real reason that I can find. Except that when ever the idea comes up guess who is dead set aginst it. The bow hunters, the majority of which use compounds with a HUGE advantage over traditional bows. And the REAL reasons for their objections is only that they do not wissh to share the woods with others. Selfishness! ! ! ! And that is all it is.


dep214,

You ask what good reason is there to keep out the X-bow.

I don't think there is one. But you can argue till you're blue in the face. The archers have blocked many attempts to include the X-bow. And they will continue to do so. They will not willingly share "thier season" with you. It's as simple and as sad as that.

I got the biggest kick out of someones suggestion that the X-bow be given the first week of the season. But of course the "bow hunters should get the week lost replaced latter. Yep, give them the first week in Sept. with the worst of the bugs. Serves them right, they should have used a "real" bow.

I think if the X-bow is to be limited then give them the week just before gun season. Will allow the deer to calm down sense there aren't so many of them. And the bow guys could forget getting it replaced. They have a outrageousely long season already compared to gun.

I think the compound users need to get a grip, and learn to share the outdoors. Those who wish to use x-bows should have the same right to do so that you do. Both of these weapons use sticks and string. Both require you to be very close to make a good hit compared to even a shotgun, never mind a rifle. Both require the HUNTER to have good skills in using the wind, game trails, cover scents, calls ect. ect. ect. That are not nearly as important to a gun hunter. Thus the X-bow is MUCH closer to a long bow than a real gun.




Edited by - craig on 01/22/2002 18:15:12

RE: The Crossbow Controversy
 

Do you people listen, most of my complaints were brought on by you crossbow users talking trash on compound bow users. Get REAL. Do you know your crossbow, obviously you guys don't because you have stated that compound bows have tons of gadgets for them, YOUR CROSSBOW DOES TOO. COME ON, read a cabelas every once in awhile. If you don't have the time to practice, you SHOULDN'T be in the woods trying to harvest an animal. Get a gun out and try. Sure, I may not want to give up my time to Crossbow holders, but if it was the exact opposite situation, you wouldn't want to give up your time. As for letoff of compound bows, I am talking about the NORMAL bow, you know, there are regulations for the record books that state a limit on the let off. I use 60 percent, most people use 65 percent. I am not talking about the highest let off setting that someone can get for there bow. Most GOOD archers know that too high of a let off can ruin a compound bows performance.

Good Luck This Season: Buck Magnet
P.S. Only Chuck Adams can sit at home and see deer so get into the woods. =;^)

RE: The Crossbow Controversy
 

i got my crossbow from bass proshops and i have not seen all the gadgets for a crossbow. they are very basic and there is not anything you can do to alter them. all the gimmicks belong to a compound.if you are so concerned give up all the gadgets and go back to a recurve.did you know that there is a crossbow made like a recurve?

RE: The Crossbow Controversy
 

To get accurate with a crossbow you need about the same practice as with a rifle. If someone wants to put more time into practicing a skill for their hunting method that's up to them. It doesn't make the rifle hunters worse hunters. They have the weapon skill to bring down game cleanly with much less practice than a recurve bow hunter.

Some of the fun of black powder is working up a load. It takes more skill than a rifle and it takes more time to learn that skill. The other nice thing about it is the extra season that we get to use it.

If it turns your crank and it's legal, do it.
But hunters shouldn't wizz on other hunters corn flakes.

Dan O.





Edited by - dan o. on 01/22/2002 19:09:55

RE: The Crossbow Controversy
 

Well Buck Magnet I'm glad to see you come out and say that what you really want is to keep the woods as private as you can. For you. Now think about this, let's take it one step farther. A skills test before you can hunt with anything. Will cut down on lost and crippled game of all kinds. And will improve the outdoor experiance for all of us that pass. Of course this will reduce our numbers and really cut into the number of young people intering the sport. But think of the great time we'd have.

[b] UNTILL THE ANTI-HUNT FOLKS PUT A END TO ALL HUNTING! ! ![b/]<img src=icon_smile_dissapprove.gif border=0 align=middle>

This is why X-bows should be allowed and even encouraged in all seasons as are bows. More opportunitys for more people to hunt. A good thing.:)<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>

RE: The Crossbow Controversy
 

WOW! I miss one day on the board, and look what goes on. Hey Buck Magnet, and BT, I realize that the pro-crossbow guys can rationalize some of their points in their own minds. I will save my arguements for the PA Game Commission when it comes to this subject. If it comes to this subject. Our opinion must be the most popular, because very, very few states allow crossbows in with conventional bows. If I seem insensitive because I do not approve of crossbows in archery season, that is not my intent. If anyone would care to scroll back to the earlier stages of this topic, I posted that people who have legitimate disabilities should, in my opinion, be ALLOWED to use a crossbow in archery season.

RE: The Crossbow Controversy
 

anyone who wished to hunt should be allowed to do so with any legal means. the next thing is that compounds not be allowed with extras. the next will be recurve only. why do compounders get upset witha crossbow. a crossbow is no different than a compound with all the extras.the last time i looked they both shot arrows with broadheads. if a hunter can shoot better and make a more humane kill,what is the problem?again the compounds leave more wounded deer than any other weapon used.

RE: The Crossbow Controversy
 

Craig, I agree with your idea of a skills test. I have talked with many people for years about this very idea. Here is one major drawback to it. I know many hunters, and you probably do also, that the skill is not what causes them to make less than perfect shots. It is that they have no self restraint. They cannot allow themselves to let a animal walk, when only a marginal shot is offered. I do think that this can be helped, it is just not as easy as a skills test. You have hit on a good idea though!
What I do, respectfully disagree with you on, is this, I do not feel that crossbows should be the vehicle used to introduce younger/more hunters into archery season. If someone without a disability wants to hunt more, they should use a conventional bow, like the vast majority of hunters supports, not just myself and a few others on this thread who disagree with crossbows.

RE: The Crossbow Controversy
 

what is wrong with a youngi wpould gladly debate any hunting assiciation with the facts . like compounds leaving more wounded deer than any other weapon used. hunter being introduced to hunting thru a crossbow? nothing is wrong. you just have your preference and want to push it on others.

RE: The Crossbow Controversy
 

sorry i messed up on last post. what i was asking was what is wrong with introducing ayoung person to hunting thru a crossbow. nothing is wrong. it just boils down to a group wanting to bully around a smaller group and push their ways on to others. i believe that we do have the freedom of chioce.it does not have to be your choice either.

RE: The Crossbow Controversy
 

Why do they allow people with disabilities to use crossbows? Why don't they let them use shotguns? Because crossbows have all the characteristics of other bows (lethal distance, noise etc.) but are easier to use.

Bow hunters help to control deer populations near builtup areas where rifles would never be allowed. They get an extended season because they are not efficient killing weapons when compared to rifles. If hunters don't control the deer poulation alternate means will be used (sterilization etc.). Add antihinting groups getting seasons cut back or areas closed and this discussion means nothing.

People need to focus on the long term not the short term gains. In Canada we'll all be hunting with black powder and bows in the future. The government knows that they aren't weapons of mass destruction but they provide a service in controlling deer etc. while keeping the tourist dollars coming in.

Dan O.

RE: The Crossbow Controversy
 

i also hunt with black powder. i have not tried to kill a deer yet with it cause i do not fully have confidence in it. i do hunt hogs with it because i do not use a scope.i have a little nephew that can not pull back a compound so i guess he can not hunt during bow season if the compounders will it.

RE: The Crossbow Controversy
 

Whoever thinks the crossbow doesn't have all the bells and whisles that a compound bow has is missing the mark. My son hunts w/a crossbow in Ark. where it is legal. His crossbow has silencers and a very accurate scope. It shoots around 315 fps and we sighted it in at 50 yards. It shoots very accuratly. It is easier to hunt w/a crossbow period. But that isn't the issue, the issue is if they should be considered a legal hunting tool. I feel that if you are a hunter, a real hunter, then you respect nature, you love being out there and you respect the game you are hunting. If the former holds true then it matters little what your choice of weapon is, as long as you use your weapon responsibly and humanely. Heck, I believe they even have a spear season in Alabama.

SOTHRDNK

RE: The Crossbow Controversy
 

besides silencers and a scope there is nothing else you can do to a crossbow. as for it being accurate up to 50 yards, i just have not seen one do that yet. mine is accurate up to 30 yards. the crossbow will move the arrow,or bolt, much further off the target with movement. crossbows are very basic and not made for all the extras. no place to put them. i tried at the dealer.i agree that as long as you are a ethical hunter it should make not difference your choice of weapons such as a compound or crossbow.

RE: The Crossbow Controversy
 

BuckMagnet, you continue to skirt around the issue is brought up. You continue to focus on the gadets, release, and draw. Tell me truly what is actually hunting in your mind? I can repaste you post off another topic if you like or cant remember. In reality the things mentioned above are only a small fraction of the acutal &quot;hunt&quot; and preparation prior to the hunt that WE, US BOWHUNTERS do.....

RE: The Crossbow Controversy
 

What is hunting to me, all of what I mentioned on my previous post, using a bow to harvest an animal is just a bonus. Lets see, what are all the bells and whistles that can be put on a compound bow? A peep sight, fiber optic pins, stabilizer, limb savers, string leechs, and thats about it. You can get pretty much the exact same stuff to use on your crossbow. See, why should ANY compound bow user listen to you guys, you obviously lie, you can't agree on the performance of the average crossbow. This is the case of every crossbow post that I have seen.

THIS post is going nowhere. MY own OPINION is that a crossbow is nothing like a bow except for it shoots an arrow. I will not be responding back on this.

Good Luck This Season: Buck Magnet
P.S. Only Chuck Adams can sit at home and see deer so get into the woods. =;^)

RE: The Crossbow Controversy
 

BM, you again skirted my point. I never once in my posts talked about belles and whistles........ Oh well...its justs fits the sterotyping.....

RE: The Crossbow Controversy
 

buck magnet shows his lack of knowledge about the crossbow. you can get silencers and sight pins,nothing else. they are not made for anything else.buck magnate is very good at skirting theissues as you say.he did finally admit that both shot arrows but says they are nothing alike. does not make sense.he is typical of most compounders who feel superior to other hunters. if he was the true hunter he states he would be hunting with a recurve and not using all the extras. again his type of hunting ;leaves more wounded deer than any other weapon used.

RE: The Crossbow Controversy
 

Im scared to say anything.

RE: The Crossbow Controversy
 

I have read this thread and will address this matter in this way. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and should be allowed to express it. The name-calling does nothing to enhance this board. I own and use both compound bows and a crossbow. My crossbow is an Excalibur and on a range, I can accurately hit the vitals on a 3-D deer target at 50 yards. Would I try that on a real deer while hunting? Not a chance in a hundred years. Would I take a 50 yard shot with my 80% let-off Mathews? Not a chance. If the &quot;hunter&quot; is legally allowed to use a crossbow, I have no problem with that fact. I do know the pros and cons of each weapon. nuff said.

RE: The Crossbow Controversy
 

Hmmmmmmm..... I wonder what he means by a certain extent..........

In my own opinion, I feel that we as hunters we should take any technology given to us, to a certain extent. I don' think that we can kill a deer too humanely. We should attempt to make a fast and humane kill, and new technology seems to help out. We should keep it as traditional as possible, but things like climbing treestands, scent lok suits, expandable broadheads, fiber optic sights.... are good ideas that help hunters out.

Good Luck This Season: Buck Magnet
P.S. Only Chuck Adams can sit at home and see deer so get into the woods. =;^)


The outdoors is yours, treat it with RESPECT!!!

[Deleted]
 

[Deleted by Admins]

RE: The Crossbow Controversy
 

Dep, this is just like you, personal attacks on others when you realize that they are going to quit arguing with you over something that YOU KNOW NOTHING ABOUT. You aren't the TYPICAL crossbow users and I THANK GOD FOR IT. You obviously don't know crap about your so called weapon. Grow up and quit trying to pick fights.

Good Luck This Season: Buck Magnet
P.S. Only Chuck Adams can sit at home and see deer so get into the woods. =;^)

RE: The Crossbow Controversy
 

I guess my whole question here is why you think a crossbow hunter is not a bow hunter. Again, and you have yet to comment to this, is when bow hunting with either a compound or a crossbow (again i use both) the actual hunt is exactly the same. The prep work is exactly the same. This assumes that &quot;bow hunters&quot; scout thier area, pick a stand according to trials, rubs, scrapes, sign, beds, sources of food, play the wind, get camoed up, etc..... We as bow hunters spend more time in the woods learning the habits of deer then a week long gun hunter has ever done, that is of course he is not a bow hunter too<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>. The only diff here is the draw. The release is a little different but not much if you think about it. So tell me why a person who does all the above (just as you do) cannot hunt the same season you do simply because the draw and release are a bit different or easier so you say. The yardage to have a clean kill is the same, the fixed or climbing stands are the same, what gives here?

The arguement about the numbers of wounded deer are probally just that.... more compounders equal more wounded deer. The numbers are proportinate to the amount of hunters using compunds versus crossbows by choice or by law. But your claim thats its easier to kill a deer with a crossbow then a compound may have a legal point to it. If that is true then all states should ban the compound and require you to use a crossbow becasue as you claim is &quot;easier&quot; to kill a deer with which would most likely mean less wounded deer. HMMMMMMMMM




The outdoors is yours, treat it with RESPECT!!!

RE: The Crossbow Controversy
 

Wow Big Country said it! Look what you miss in a day!

Well I guess Some folks took offense to my statement that &quot;any monkey can get good with a crossbow&quot; That statement was NOT directed at anyone here. I called no one a monkey but am willing to bet a monkey could shoot one!It is a fact that a crossbow takes very little real talent or practice when compared to any conventional bow. If that FACT offends you, too bad. I called no one any names. Do I consider someone who shoots a compound to be a better archer than someone who shoots a crossbow YEP! Shooting a crossbow isn't archery. BTW I would also say that, as a rule, traditional shooters are far more dedicated than the average compound shooter. It simply takes more time with the equipment.


Now, Dep I challenged you to back up your repeated statement that &quot;compounds wound more deer than any other weapon&quot;. Others have done the same. Where is your proof?

Edited by - btbowhunter on 01/23/2002 15:12:21

RE: The Crossbow Controversy
 

if you had read the posts as you stated i answered your question and told you where i got the info.maybe you could bot find it since a monkey wrote it.if you feel superior to crossbowers then why do you need all the gimmicks to get you to that pointany monkey can see that is you removed all the gimmicks you would not be a very accurate hunter. that is the same with the crossbow. the difference is that the crossbow is not equipped to have all those gimmicks.i thinkyou have answered what all of have stated.you feel superior but can not be that way without all the gimmicks.you have an opinion and want to push it off onto others. you are no better or worse than anyone. you are just a hunter like me.you seem to ignore or act as if you do not see what people are saying to you.read the posts again and you will find where the info came from. i will not waste my tim to tell you again since you stated you thought you were better.

RE: The Crossbow Controversy
 

you will not find anywhere in these posts that i made a personal attack on anyone. i just stated that someone lacked the knowledge about a crossbow. i seem to know more than those who criticize them. all a croosbow can be adapted with is silencers and sight pins. nothing else.i laughed at tghe posts where the compounders said i did not answer them. they had that info because they did not take the time to read the posts.it seems that the compounders are scared that they are now being challenged. too bad. you are not better or superior.

RE: The Crossbow Controversy
 

&quot;The Stats came from the Texas parks and wildlife commission&quot; I guess I should be satisfied now, huh? What stats? how did they conduct the study? Compounds compared to what weapons?
You also continue to ignore the fundamental difference. THAT A CROSSBOW IS COCKED WHEN THE GAME ARRIVES. You may want to read one of my first posts. I own both. I use the crossbow in rifle season AND IT DOES GIVE AN EDGE. Maybe if the xbow enthusiasts would acknowledge that there would be less problem getting them their OWN season. Something I have no objection to.

RE: The Crossbow Controversy
 

why are you so superior that you should have your own season? it is still hunting. how easy would the compound be without all the gimmicks?i bet you would not be as near as good.you still refuse to ackowledge the other posts that criticize your arrogance in feeling better.i wish the crossbow was able to get all the extras that a compound has. the fact is that they do not.compounders have a TRIGGER RELEASE and the crossbow has a trigger. sound familiar?you have done nothing but give weak arguments and hide behind your thoughts of superiority.

RE: The Crossbow Controversy
 

BTBowhunter: Maybe you can answer some of my questions in my posts that i directed to BuckMagnet but he seems to only want to attack Dep......As you do in your posts. And your monkey comment was made directly to folks on here who use a crossbow. Its just a sad sight to see someone hold themselves higer then others in this day and age, when all we do is hunt. Your only point is the draw, and this equates having a seperate season. Please SOMEONE address my point on the acutal hunt and nothing is different except the draw, where a crossbow is i guess in your mind a &quot;hold&quot; when the game approaches....... Do me a favor and read my entire posts on here prior to answering...it makes it a better debate.

The outdoors is yours, treat it with RESPECT!!!<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

Edited by - buckforme on 01/23/2002 16:13:40

RE: The Crossbow Controversy
 

You still havent addressed the fundamental difference!

RE: The Crossbow Controversy
 

Exactly what gimmicks does a compound shooter have available that a crossbow shooter doesn't?

RE: The Crossbow Controversy
 

bt-once again your knowledge is lacking about a crossbow. the only things that a crossbow can have is silencers and sights. the compound has all the others. since you are so hung up on the fundamental difference,look at both and you will easily see allthe extras.there is now a cocking device for compounds. hmmmmm

RE: The Crossbow Controversy
 

Buckforme
PLeas scroll back to the early pages where I described the 3 deer I killed with a crossbow this year. My point is that weapons that are decidedly mor effective are fine but need to be seperated from those with less effectiveness. Ask some of the Muzzleloader enthusiasts that started out with old style blackpowder weapons only to have seasons reduced as the more effective inlines with scope invaded their season.
Im not against crossbows, just against them being lumped in with regular archery equipment.
And I didn't call anyone any names. I was pointing out that the crossbow takes minimal talent and dedication. I still stand on that!

RE: The Crossbow Controversy
 

Ok......say a Monkey can shoot a x-bow.....just by the device being easier to sight in and use does that equal results? No one on here has addressed the actual steps taken to bowhunt! My point is if a monkey can shoot a xbow with little talent, that is only a quarter of the battle. The real test is the set up in the field, the time in scouting the knowledge of deer patterns, the ethics of bow hunting. Just because you can as you say easily shoot a xbow at a target does not gurantee a kill in the woods. Hell if it was that easy would we need any bows at all????

RE: The Crossbow Controversy
 

Since I am so lacking in crossbowknowledge, even though I own one, humor me. What gimmicks? Sights, both got em crosbows have effective scope too though. Wheels, both got em again. Silencers, Both again. Satblizers, one needs em one don't. Tell me oh knowledgable one, what did I miss?