Point Restrictions Isn't the answer....
12-25-2002, 10:34 AM
#12
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Pittsburgh PA
Posts: 947
RE: Point Restrictions Isn't the answer....
Royak, I say that because my father in-law and others like him think a 4 point is a better deer than a doe. Bragging rights, I guess. I agree with AR, because the population is out of wack and needs to be corrected. Yes, I'd love to shoot a wall hanger every year. We all know that'll never happen, but if I pass on the smaller bucks and fill my freezer with a couple does each year, I'll have more of a chance than if I shot the first fork horn that walked by. I agree with you Cardeer about not every area is over populated. We do need smaller DMU's and access to private property. The PGC has addressed both of these issuse and hopefully will see some more changes next year.
12-25-2002, 01:03 PM
#13
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: wampum pa USA
Posts: 107
RE: Point Restrictions Isn't the answer....
I still don't like point restrictions in Pa. I don't think the PGC should be allowed to tell you what you can or can not shoot. They don't own the herd they are here to manage it. I think money is still the driving force behind Alt & all his bull<font color=red>edited</font id=red>. Statements he has made just don't sound right coming from a biologist, such as " I'm surprised at the spring fawn mortallity due to black bears." Or the statement he made about bucks losing thier antlers due to overpopulation of does, they're tired from chasing too many does. I question some of these statements. I think the auto insurance copany's & tree farmers have alot of impact on the PGC. When bigger bucks start showing up like they have in the mid-west I think we will see a large increase in license fees. I own almost 300 acres, & I would not let the PGC talk me into anything. My neighbor owns over 400 acres & will not let anyone other than the locals hunt his property. I know I'll probably take some heat on my opinion but it's my way of thinking, I don't trust Alt & I smell something fishy in the future of Pa. hunting.
<font color=red>I have the tendancy to delete posts that skirt the profanity filter. Please be advised in the red edit. Next time, deleted</font id=red>, <font color=blue>Rob</font id=blue>
Edited by - Rob/PA Bowyer on 12/26/2002 22:30:32
<font color=red>I have the tendancy to delete posts that skirt the profanity filter. Please be advised in the red edit. Next time, deleted</font id=red>, <font color=blue>Rob</font id=blue>
Edited by - Rob/PA Bowyer on 12/26/2002 22:30:32
12-25-2002, 03:08 PM
#14
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Indiana PA USA
Posts: 3,656
RE: Point Restrictions Isn't the answer....
DG, can you explain to me how Pennsylvania doesn't have a liberal amount of time to kill does? We have early archery season, which is over a month long. This is open to buck and doe, also mixed in with that is junior/senior antlerless rifle hunting. Then, you have "buck" season, which is two weeks long, you are allowed to harvest a buck OR DOE in that who two week season, then finally, you have late season archery/muzzleloader season, which is roughly a month long. This is open to doe hunting too. That is around 3 full months out of the 12 months in a year that hunters are allowed to harvest does. That sounds more than fair to me.
The PGC has handed out more than 1,000,000 doe tags. Isn't that enough to knock down the doe herd? I hear so many people talk about hunters not using their doe tags, but, even if 60% of these hunters do and are successful, that is still more doe killed off than ever before.
Our herd size is WAY too large. Personally, I like seein deer every time I go hunting, but, I am in the woods to relax. I am going to take everything in. At the end of the day, I am just as happy to have watched two squirrels fighting as seeing a line of doe walk past me. We need to decrease the size of the herd dramatically. I like Cardeer's idea of trying to open up more hunting land. My best friend lives about a mile from me and, EVERY night there are over 50 deer feeding in ONE cornfield in front of his house. Why? Because it is posted and the landowner is the only person that hunts it. Everywhere around this property is hunted so every deer that is pressured runs to this little patch of woods. The field is maybe 15 acres, and there is no way that it can sustain 50 deer, and heck, thats only the ones that you can see.
I know from a fact that the PGC has my rated the area I hunt to have around 40-45 deer per square mile. This, I believe to be an understatement. I can do a big circle while spotting, maybe covering 2 square miles, and I have seen over 200 deer some nights. On average, I see about 100 deer per night. It doesn't matter if all 2 square miles were planted in nothing but food plots, it still couldn't CONSTANTLY sustain that amount of deer.
The Game Commission has done there part, now it is up to the hunters. I hear some many people blamming everything on the Game Commission, but, the PGC can't go out and shoot a doe for someone, it is up to the hunter. Your not going to change the minds of alot of people by telling them that it will be better for the deer herd to shoot a doe. Too many people are out for their ego trip on antlers, wether it be a spike or a 14 point. I will admit, I pass on small bucks while waiting for that big one, but, I refuse to pass on any doe if I have a doe tag. If I have a doe tag, the first doe that gives me a good shot is going to die. Then, like others, the challenge begins for me.
The problem of people "saving doe tags" is not just going to go away in a year or two. The ONLY way to make it go away is to let ALL junior hunters know that they need to use their doe tags and that they SHOULD harvest does. If we do this, over time, the old guys stuck to their ways will eventually give up hunting or pass away and the generation of youth who have been taught to harvest does will be replacing the spot the older guys who saved their tags were at. It would take half a century to do this, and then it isn't even certain. ALL WE CAN DO IS TRY TO GET MORE HUNTERS TO SHOOT DOES AND PASS ON THOSE SMALL BUCKS!!!!!!!
Good Luck This Season: Buck Magnet
Check out my hunting PICS here http://community.webshots.com/user/buckmagnet
The PGC has handed out more than 1,000,000 doe tags. Isn't that enough to knock down the doe herd? I hear so many people talk about hunters not using their doe tags, but, even if 60% of these hunters do and are successful, that is still more doe killed off than ever before.
Our herd size is WAY too large. Personally, I like seein deer every time I go hunting, but, I am in the woods to relax. I am going to take everything in. At the end of the day, I am just as happy to have watched two squirrels fighting as seeing a line of doe walk past me. We need to decrease the size of the herd dramatically. I like Cardeer's idea of trying to open up more hunting land. My best friend lives about a mile from me and, EVERY night there are over 50 deer feeding in ONE cornfield in front of his house. Why? Because it is posted and the landowner is the only person that hunts it. Everywhere around this property is hunted so every deer that is pressured runs to this little patch of woods. The field is maybe 15 acres, and there is no way that it can sustain 50 deer, and heck, thats only the ones that you can see.
I know from a fact that the PGC has my rated the area I hunt to have around 40-45 deer per square mile. This, I believe to be an understatement. I can do a big circle while spotting, maybe covering 2 square miles, and I have seen over 200 deer some nights. On average, I see about 100 deer per night. It doesn't matter if all 2 square miles were planted in nothing but food plots, it still couldn't CONSTANTLY sustain that amount of deer.
The Game Commission has done there part, now it is up to the hunters. I hear some many people blamming everything on the Game Commission, but, the PGC can't go out and shoot a doe for someone, it is up to the hunter. Your not going to change the minds of alot of people by telling them that it will be better for the deer herd to shoot a doe. Too many people are out for their ego trip on antlers, wether it be a spike or a 14 point. I will admit, I pass on small bucks while waiting for that big one, but, I refuse to pass on any doe if I have a doe tag. If I have a doe tag, the first doe that gives me a good shot is going to die. Then, like others, the challenge begins for me.
The problem of people "saving doe tags" is not just going to go away in a year or two. The ONLY way to make it go away is to let ALL junior hunters know that they need to use their doe tags and that they SHOULD harvest does. If we do this, over time, the old guys stuck to their ways will eventually give up hunting or pass away and the generation of youth who have been taught to harvest does will be replacing the spot the older guys who saved their tags were at. It would take half a century to do this, and then it isn't even certain. ALL WE CAN DO IS TRY TO GET MORE HUNTERS TO SHOOT DOES AND PASS ON THOSE SMALL BUCKS!!!!!!!
Good Luck This Season: Buck Magnet
Check out my hunting PICS here http://community.webshots.com/user/buckmagnet
12-25-2002, 05:40 PM
#15
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: PA
Posts: 9,085
RE: Point Restrictions Isn't the answer....
i duno if this was posted but PA alloted close to 1 million doe liscenses this year...more for counties with more deer and less in counties where there arent so many deer...doe season runs the legnth of buck season and there are a few special doe season allowing even more deer to be taken...the ARs arent for trophys so much...they are to try to get some younger bucks to live longer and pass more on and make more bucks...now if it was the same 3 day doe season i could see the reason for saying they wont work but this year even with the ARs i heard a little less shooting but way less hunters were seen...and this year most hunters had their doe tags showing and last year most were buck hunting...i think alot of does got taken this year and alot of bucks passed because they simply couldnt tell in time...sure the buck harvest may be pretty high still but i think they worked to a certain extant...i think the herd will even out soon...i hope it all works..it was 4 years before i seen a buck while hunting..i see over 20 does a season and not one buck until this year..my buck this year was AR legal too...he made it until 9:15am when i tagged him...
12-26-2002, 05:40 AM
#17
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Fredericksburg Virginia USA
Posts: 13,672
RE: Point Restrictions Isn't the answer....
Fullback first thing in Va. we only get 4 tags with our initial license, other than that you speak the truth in regards to Va.
I like New Jerseys method, they call it "earn a buck", what this means is you have to kill a doe before you can take a buck!! This is a great idea in my book, if you do not kill a doe, you can't kill a buck. This program will definantly decrease doe numbers and increase buck numbers. I would like to see Va. put a program like this into effect.
I figured out that if you hunted all seasons every day, killed your limit every day, and bought additional doe tags in Va. you could legally kill 3 bucks and over 100 doe in a single season.
You are right that some guys are strictly horn hunters, I am a deer hunter and love venison, I take every deer I can legally as long as it is not a fawn.
The Tazman aka Martin Price
Founder and President of
Virginia Disabled Outdoorsmen Club
I like New Jerseys method, they call it "earn a buck", what this means is you have to kill a doe before you can take a buck!! This is a great idea in my book, if you do not kill a doe, you can't kill a buck. This program will definantly decrease doe numbers and increase buck numbers. I would like to see Va. put a program like this into effect.
I figured out that if you hunted all seasons every day, killed your limit every day, and bought additional doe tags in Va. you could legally kill 3 bucks and over 100 doe in a single season.
You are right that some guys are strictly horn hunters, I am a deer hunter and love venison, I take every deer I can legally as long as it is not a fawn.
The Tazman aka Martin Price
Founder and President of
Virginia Disabled Outdoorsmen Club
12-26-2002, 08:57 AM
#18
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Hoges Store VA USA
Posts: 49
RE: Point Restrictions Isn't the answer....
Hey Taz, you and I live in different parts of the state and I guess I should clarify my thinking....when I buy my license I get two either sex(which I use for bucks), I get one antlerless tag, and I also get another either sex for East of the Blueridge(which I'm not) so I do get 4 tags on my initial license....but I do buy 2 bonus tags which are antlerless only...so I'd actually get six, but only five are valid here west of the blueridge....I use the antlerless tag along with the two bonus tags to fill the freezer with does and then hunt horns....just wanted to clear that up...I was a little vague.
In our line of work, we must be able to play Dixie and the Battle Hym of the Republic, With Equal Enthusiasm.
In our line of work, we must be able to play Dixie and the Battle Hym of the Republic, With Equal Enthusiasm.
12-26-2002, 09:24 AM
#19
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Hoges Store VA USA
Posts: 49
RE: Point Restrictions Isn't the answer....
I must add something to this....when I'm talking about taking does, I'm saying to go out and shoot every legal doe that crosses your path...I mean you can if you want and not hear a complaint from me.....I use early archery season to take most of the does I shoot....the rut is weeks off....during early archery season, unless I've a nice buck patterned, then I usually hunt does....I look carefully to make sure that I don't take a button buck....there is a time to let the does walk....during the pre-rut and rut....I'll usually let a doe walk by in hopes of seeing a nice buck following...if a doe comes up, acting like somethings behind her, I'll let her walk...all I'm saying is to use some sense when it comes to doe vs. buck hunting....shoot more does than bucks, THERE'S NOTHING WRONG WITH IT...YOU'RE HELPING THE DEER HERD....AR, even though I'm for it, isn't a cure all for herd balancing....it's up to us....take the does now, and we and our children will reap the benefits.
In our line of work, we must be able to play Dixie and the Battle Hym of the Republic, With Equal Enthusiasm.
In our line of work, we must be able to play Dixie and the Battle Hym of the Republic, With Equal Enthusiasm.
12-26-2002, 09:31 AM
#20
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Hoges Store VA USA
Posts: 49
RE: Point Restrictions Isn't the answer....
Since I'm on a roll, I'm gonna keep going on.....Just because Bill Jordan and Jackie Bushman aren't doe advocates, doesn't mean that you shouldn't be....Bill Jordan and Jackie Bushman aren't hunting much in Pennsylvania or South Western Va....they're not hunting on National Forest lands.....I mean if I were hunting on intensely managed areas like Milk River Montana, or these big ranches in Texas, or Pike Co. Illinois, or these Iowa Cornfields...I imagine i'd hold out for a nice one also....but these videos and such are getting to be too much like Hollywood, it's not real life anymore....I think I'm done for the time being....I might think of something else in a little while.
In our line of work, we must be able to play Dixie and the Battle Hym of the Republic, With Equal Enthusiasm.
In our line of work, we must be able to play Dixie and the Battle Hym of the Republic, With Equal Enthusiasm.