243 and deer
12-19-2006, 09:58 PM
#51
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: NW Arkansas
Posts: 1,673
RE: 243 and deer
ORIGINAL: zrexpilot
No thats not what I am saying, you have to compare expanded bullet diameters. A 338 is already starting off bigger in diameter than the 7mm. Fire both into an animal and recover bullets and measure expanded diameters, the .338 is going to leave a bigger hole and penetrate more with the heavier bullets. Compare a 7 mag to say a 7-08 at 500 yds, the mag will have the needed velocity for expansion, see what I am trying to say ?
ORIGINAL: Chantecler111
Ok, zrex, tell me, would you rather use, a .338 Win Mag, or a 7mm Mag, on a grizzly bear? Or do you even own a magnum caliber? If what you are saying is true, then, the faster 7mm mag, would surely blow a bigger hole in that bear right? Because it expands more due to higher velocity.
Ok, zrex, tell me, would you rather use, a .338 Win Mag, or a 7mm Mag, on a grizzly bear? Or do you even own a magnum caliber? If what you are saying is true, then, the faster 7mm mag, would surely blow a bigger hole in that bear right? Because it expands more due to higher velocity.
No thats not what I am saying, you have to compare expanded bullet diameters. A 338 is already starting off bigger in diameter than the 7mm. Fire both into an animal and recover bullets and measure expanded diameters, the .338 is going to leave a bigger hole and penetrate more with the heavier bullets. Compare a 7 mag to say a 7-08 at 500 yds, the mag will have the needed velocity for expansion, see what I am trying to say ?
12-19-2006, 10:18 PM
#52
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Texas
Posts: 2,695
RE: 243 and deer
Magnums offer no more killing power per say at close ranges than its little brother and actually can cause problems at close ranges, the high velocities can cause bullets to blow up at close range, and lack penetration, so then you go to harder bullets and then you start blowing tiny holes in deer. A 30-06 can be better than a 300 mag at close range but vice versa at long range.
Magnums are intended for long range. But I doubt any deer will stop a 300 mag at close range, but get into bigger game and I bet you will see what I am talking about.
We took 2 huge hogs with my friends 300 at close range, the mag did not go through them, but I bet if we would have shot them at 150-200 yds it would have gone through.
Magnums are intended for long range. But I doubt any deer will stop a 300 mag at close range, but get into bigger game and I bet you will see what I am talking about.
We took 2 huge hogs with my friends 300 at close range, the mag did not go through them, but I bet if we would have shot them at 150-200 yds it would have gone through.
12-19-2006, 10:22 PM
#53
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: NW Arkansas
Posts: 1,673
RE: 243 and deer
Zrex, I actually, for once, see that you are making a valid claim, and I actually see how dumb I am now for owning a few magnums, when a standard caliber would do just fine, with less recoil. I think the way I hunt game has just changed, I have seen the er of my ways, and I regret it, what good does that extra power do you? None at all, only bragging rights is about it, and really, that doesn't even matter. Zrex, thank you for pointing all this out to me, now, I have some soul searching to do.
12-19-2006, 10:41 PM
#54
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Texas
Posts: 2,695
RE: 243 and deer
Bulletsexpansion is determined by its velocity. Here is a swift scirroco bonded, it maximum expansion is at 2700fps, what happens in a mag at say 3100fps at say 50 yds.
2700fps 2245fps 1730fps 1440fps
2700fps 2245fps 1730fps 1440fps
12-20-2006, 06:37 AM
#56
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: MISSOURI
Posts: 1,157
RE: 243 and deer
Most soft point bullets are designed to expand at or around 2700fps. That just seems to be a magic number.No matter the calibur it just is the right muzzel velocity. ie ---30-06 180 gr 2700fps / 250 savage 100 gr 2700fps
12-20-2006, 11:30 AM
#57
Fork Horn
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: SW Virginia
Posts: 353
RE: 243 and deer
ORIGINAL: DANTHEHUNTER
Most soft point bullets are designed to expand at or around 2700fps. That just seems to be a magic number.No matter the calibur it just is the right muzzel velocity. ie ---30-06 180 gr 2700fps / 250 savage 100 gr 2700fps
Most soft point bullets are designed to expand at or around 2700fps. That just seems to be a magic number.No matter the calibur it just is the right muzzel velocity. ie ---30-06 180 gr 2700fps / 250 savage 100 gr 2700fps
Ex. .30/06 180 gr., MUZZLE velocity 2700fps. Are we required to place the muzzle against the deer, or can we stand back a little?
12-20-2006, 12:06 PM
#58
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Texas
Posts: 2,695
RE: 243 and deer
ORIGINAL: keyshunter
Please understand, I'm not doubting you, but where ever did you find that data?
Ex. .30/06 180 gr., MUZZLE velocity 2700fps. Are we required to place the muzzle against the deer, or can we stand back a little?
ORIGINAL: DANTHEHUNTER
Most soft point bullets are designed to expand at or around 2700fps. That just seems to be a magic number.No matter the calibur it just is the right muzzel velocity. ie ---30-06 180 gr 2700fps / 250 savage 100 gr 2700fps
Most soft point bullets are designed to expand at or around 2700fps. That just seems to be a magic number.No matter the calibur it just is the right muzzel velocity. ie ---30-06 180 gr 2700fps / 250 savage 100 gr 2700fps
Ex. .30/06 180 gr., MUZZLE velocity 2700fps. Are we required to place the muzzle against the deer, or can we stand back a little?
12-20-2006, 12:53 PM
#59
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: El Dorado, Arkansas
Posts: 2,174
RE: 243 and deer
Chantecler111, I do not know that you necessarily have some soul searching to do, but more-over perhaps some new rifle ( s ) searching to do....LOL...
Good luck in your quest.
And what zrexpilot was saying is exactly what I came to understand years ago by studying ballistics tables and bullet expansion charts. My first rifle was a used 30-30.My first new rifle, about 16 years ago,was a .270. Then a 7mm-08 followed, then a .243, then a .308, then a 30-06, then a .243 ( yesterday ) . I just got my Ruger M77 Compact .243 Stainless / Laminate, and it is sooooo great.
I currently have all of these rifles, and I believe I can do anything I need or want to do with them. Magnums have never been a part of my vocabulary.
God bless
Oh - BTW - and if I ever feel the need to boost any of these rounds, I will shoot some Hornady light mag ammo. It will Add around 200 ft / lb of energy to your round.
Good luck in your quest.
And what zrexpilot was saying is exactly what I came to understand years ago by studying ballistics tables and bullet expansion charts. My first rifle was a used 30-30.My first new rifle, about 16 years ago,was a .270. Then a 7mm-08 followed, then a .243, then a .308, then a 30-06, then a .243 ( yesterday ) . I just got my Ruger M77 Compact .243 Stainless / Laminate, and it is sooooo great.
I currently have all of these rifles, and I believe I can do anything I need or want to do with them. Magnums have never been a part of my vocabulary.
God bless
Oh - BTW - and if I ever feel the need to boost any of these rounds, I will shoot some Hornady light mag ammo. It will Add around 200 ft / lb of energy to your round.
12-20-2006, 01:07 PM
#60
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: NW Arkansas
Posts: 1,673
RE: 243 and deer
ORIGINAL: MichaelT.
Chantecler111, I do not know that you necessarily have some soul searching to do, but more-over perhaps some new rifle ( s ) searching to do....LOL...
Good luck in your quest.
And what zrexpilot was saying is exactly what I came to understand years ago by studying ballistics tables and bullet expansion charts. My first rifle was a used 30-30.My first new rifle, about 16 years ago,was a .270. Then a 7mm-08 followed, then a .243, then a .308, then a 30-06, then a .243 ( yesterday ) . I just got my Ruger M77 Compact .243 Stainless / Laminate, and it is sooooo great.
I currently have all of these rifles, and I believe I can do anything I need or want to do with them. Magnums have never been a part of my vocabulary.
God bless
Oh - BTW - and if I ever feel the need to boost any of these rounds, I will shoot some Hornady light mag ammo. It will Add around 200 ft / lb of energy to your round.
Chantecler111, I do not know that you necessarily have some soul searching to do, but more-over perhaps some new rifle ( s ) searching to do....LOL...
Good luck in your quest.
And what zrexpilot was saying is exactly what I came to understand years ago by studying ballistics tables and bullet expansion charts. My first rifle was a used 30-30.My first new rifle, about 16 years ago,was a .270. Then a 7mm-08 followed, then a .243, then a .308, then a 30-06, then a .243 ( yesterday ) . I just got my Ruger M77 Compact .243 Stainless / Laminate, and it is sooooo great.
I currently have all of these rifles, and I believe I can do anything I need or want to do with them. Magnums have never been a part of my vocabulary.
God bless
Oh - BTW - and if I ever feel the need to boost any of these rounds, I will shoot some Hornady light mag ammo. It will Add around 200 ft / lb of energy to your round.