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land owners

Old 12-05-2005, 01:31 PM
  #31  
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: USA
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Default RE: land owners

ORIGINAL: Sylvan

Last I checked the 4th ammendment had not been repealed. No government agent may enter your house (or curtaledge) without probable cause suported by an "Oath or affrirmation" (search warrant) unless there is immediate action required to stop a crime. In other words a police officer if he sees someone about to kill someone may break in to save the person without a warrant or for example if he sees a drug deal going on through a window. With regard to game wardens being able to come into your home and search your freezer any time they want; whoever told you this is full of B.S. Your truck and your land beyond your immediate living area or again curtaledge is a different matter and its true that a game warden has more leeway here than does a police officer.
Interesting points about the 4th amendment and ones I agree with wholeheartedly. I've always wondered why Fand G guys have more latitude for searching vehicles. Maybe because during hunting season in places people hunt, case law has developed a standard of "probable cause" that is different than at other times and places. I think maybe the bottom line is that without that ability, it would be difficult to have enforcable game laws, very easy to hide game (especially birds, but also deer). When shades of grey are encountered (like in probable cause issues), the courts do take into consideration the societal benefit or cost of shading one way or the other.

I'm just musingn- I'm a firm, firm believer in constitutional protections (all of them, not just the ones that are popular among the right or left wings), but also have this gut-feeling that F&G searches are reasonable. Maybe because I grew up understanding what the rules were during hunting season, you could call it brain washed.

I'm interested in hearing other's reasoning and opinions.
zekeskar is offline  
Old 12-05-2005, 02:07 PM
  #32  
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
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Default RE: land owners

Last I checked the 4th ammendment had not been repealed. No government agent may enter your house (or curtaledge) without probable cause suported by an "Oath or affrirmation" (search warrant) unless there is immediate action required to stop a crime. In other words a police officer if he sees someone about to kill someone may break in to save the person without a warrant or for example if he sees a drug deal going on through a window.
It's interesting you mention that, I was trying to remember that word; curtaledge. We had game wardens come onto our property once about 10 or so years ago. They were tipped off that we were hunting with machine guns and using salt blocks. The machine gun was legally owned and liscensed (but never hunted with) by one of the two owners who produced all his paperwork to the judge. I can't remember the whole details about the blocks but I think it was something with regards to they were mineral blocks, not salt blocks and were covered (that somehow made a difference) and weren't hunted over. Either way, what they were were legal compared to what the game wardens tried to bust us for. Anyways, the other owner happens to be a lawyer and argued Curtaledge during the case. When they were patrolling our land on 4-wheelers they came right by our cabin, not 10 feet away. Now, as I understand it, curtaledge is suppose to be our property where we reside, and arguing that that was what this was was a bit of a stretch, but the judge said the same thing you had (theownerbrought a court reporter with him for the hearing, we have the whole thing up at the cabin, it's a funny read, he argued circles around the G.W.) that they could be on our curtaledge on a tip off without a warrant just as if he heard that was a muderer on our property and came to save our lives. Eitherway it ended up being a mute point as the only thing they did get to stick was some beavertraps that were apprantly too far below water or too far above water.

Anyways, this would be my interesting tidbit to add to the discussion.
smoothbronco is offline  
Old 12-05-2005, 08:16 PM
  #33  
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 6
Default RE: land owners

i live in WV and our system seems to work very well. landowner/residents can hunt without license but numbers are tracked by checking deer in. in recent years numbers have been declining, but alot of that has to do with summer droughts, etc. as to the thoughts about the game wardens, i am a firm believer in constitutional rights, however, i have nothing to hide and would gladly talk to any game warden or police officer(even thoughsome of the locals are a bit of a joke)for that matter but since i dont know the ins and outs of every local game law(even though i know more of them than most) i dont feel comfortable forming a distinct opinion on that matter, but i would support allowing game wardens free reign(with maybe some restriction if it came down to it
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Old 12-05-2005, 08:48 PM
  #34  
 
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Default RE: land owners

Twas the time when yes, the game warden pretty much could come and go as he pleased (with regards too your house) but over the last decade or two many a case has been taken too the states supreme courts and many conservation depts have lost. They certainly don't have to have warrants to come onto your property just to make sure you are legal.

The Federal gamewardens, now they are a different breed entirely. BUT you can bet that when they show up the work has already been done, the Is dotted and the Ts crossed. It's no longer playtime when the boys in blue come a knockin. 9xs out of 10 if you live east of the MS River and they knock on the door you have either done something on Federal Land (of which there isn't much in the eastern part of the U.S.) or you have violated the endangered/protected species act or you have been a serious offender of waterfowl regulations (they are treated as a federal subject since they are migratory). I am friends and know many of my state wardens and consider them GREAT people and God Bless and thanks for them. BUT I tremble at the sight of the "blue wardens". I swear many of them are like ATF agents, they are anti-gunners/hunters with badges and a preconceived notion that we are ALL guilty until we prove ourselves innocent!!! []

In TN landowners don't have to pay for tags, they must however get free tags from the state simply so someone knows there is hunting going on there and of course they must tag and check in any deer taken. As it should be, the wardens and state are responsible for law enforcement for ALL the game EVERYWHERE. Someone has to foot that bill, personally I don't see where a landowner should get a "free ride" with respect too that. Maybe a reduced fee or half price tag, but not free IMHO!!!

Game wardens are my friends, but now if the ATF/FBI shows up (ala the Janet "gas and burn" Reno era) at my place I hope my family isn't around and my life insurance premiums are paid up. Because theres probably gonna be some lead flung at those commies!!! [:@]
RA

ps
Speakin of the ATF I realize now they are under the Homeland Security Dept but originally they were under the Dept of the Treasury (aka the IRS). Since when did the Treasury Dept have constitutional powers of a judicial nature???
RedAllison is offline  
Old 12-09-2005, 07:58 AM
  #35  
Fork Horn
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 295
Default RE: land owners (court case?)

Somonementionedthat they tought a case relating to this thread isto beheardby the USSupremeCourt this term. Anyone know the name or names of the parties involved? If so, I'llkeepan eye on the docket, and post itsdispositionwhen it is handed down.
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Old 12-09-2005, 08:33 AM
  #36  
Typical Buck
 
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Location: Fremont, NE
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Default RE: land owners (court case?)

Here in Nebraska, you have to own a specific number of acres on order to be considered a "landowner." You still have to purchase tags like everyone else and it's still a draw, if it's a draw area. As far as the game wardens are concerned, I haven't had any problems with them in the past, but they do set up checkpoints sometimes on the highways and can look all of the wy through your vehicle to find illegal animals, etc.
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Old 12-09-2005, 09:02 AM
  #37  
Typical Buck
 
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Default RE: land owners (court case?)

Unless something has changed here in Texas the GW's can pretty much do what they want to. Lots of small police forces like to have the GW's check for illegal game at meth houses. Once the GW sees it then the rest of the cops can come in.....

-john
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