broadheads
09-12-2008, 06:29 AM
#13
Fork Horn
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Michigan
Posts: 191
RE: broadheads
ORIGINAL: Jason Cuda
Todd, I hear ya, and you have to go with what you have confidence with. I used to Grim Reapers a while back. They are still the same design, but now offer two diff heads I believe. I looked at their data, and I personally believe that its close to true, but my personal experiences with them have found them to still have shot deflection on quartering shots. I was not getting the usual pass thru's that year, but looking back, I was using a much lighter arrow then. As with any mechanical head, shooting a little heavier shaft often times, helps out by increasing a little K/E. I use a drill press to test all the ferals of my broadheads before use, and my finding back then were found that many of heads ferals which were cnc'd from aluminum did not spin test well. Especially near the tips where they were turned in a lathe for the adaptation of the screw in razor cut head. I wasnt sure if they heated up in this process, and warped or what, but that was my findings then. Like I said, this was a while ago, and they probably changed their production processes. I myself, am going to stick with the PP's for a while longer as I have 20 packaged 3 pks still hanging on the wall of my bow tuning area. I also do not care for the cheesy rubber band either, and yes they seem to dry rot easily too. I have to agree there, but I still have too much confidence to change up right now, as I know I can stick that shaft on a dime whenever needed, and in the moment of truth, thats all that matters to us as hunters.
Now, get to work, so you and your gang could put together another awesome video for us!!!!
Jason Cuda
Todd, I hear ya, and you have to go with what you have confidence with. I used to Grim Reapers a while back. They are still the same design, but now offer two diff heads I believe. I looked at their data, and I personally believe that its close to true, but my personal experiences with them have found them to still have shot deflection on quartering shots. I was not getting the usual pass thru's that year, but looking back, I was using a much lighter arrow then. As with any mechanical head, shooting a little heavier shaft often times, helps out by increasing a little K/E. I use a drill press to test all the ferals of my broadheads before use, and my finding back then were found that many of heads ferals which were cnc'd from aluminum did not spin test well. Especially near the tips where they were turned in a lathe for the adaptation of the screw in razor cut head. I wasnt sure if they heated up in this process, and warped or what, but that was my findings then. Like I said, this was a while ago, and they probably changed their production processes. I myself, am going to stick with the PP's for a while longer as I have 20 packaged 3 pks still hanging on the wall of my bow tuning area. I also do not care for the cheesy rubber band either, and yes they seem to dry rot easily too. I have to agree there, but I still have too much confidence to change up right now, as I know I can stick that shaft on a dime whenever needed, and in the moment of truth, thats all that matters to us as hunters.
Now, get to work, so you and your gang could put together another awesome video for us!!!!
Jason Cuda
That is very interesting...... I would think that most, if not all broadheads that are machined and not MIM'ed like the G5 stuff would be done on some sort of screw machine or hydromat machining center?? At least anything with any type of high volumes?? Like all machining and manufacturing processes, there are variables within the process that need to be controlled and monitored closely to ensure a consistant product. Some processes have more variability that is inherent to the process based on variables such as the machinery, the materials, and the complexity of the operation being performed. Of course like with anything, many times it comes down to the quality (see cost)of the machinery and tooling (repeatability), the raw material, and how thoughtout the manufacturing process may have been, and it's overall capability to produce a quality product that is consistant and reproduceable within that process.
I would find it interesting to perform capability study for linear runout (amount of wobble)on the ferules of many of the popular heads today and then compare those to a study of a cross-section of field points?? You never hear people question their field points, but I would bet they are produced the same way??? There would be less runout, mostly because they are generally shorter in length than broadhead ferules, but could still be produced with a "wobble".
Interesting stuff, no doubt.............
Mark
09-12-2008, 06:57 AM
#14
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 121
RE: broadheads
South Dakota hunter- no they do not take a lot of tuning- usually just enough time to screw them on to your arrow- they are then tuned and ready to go. I have used them for years now. I prefer the bigger cutting diamter 1 3/4 or the smaller 11/4. Try thm out you will enjoy
nic
nic
09-12-2008, 02:25 PM
#15
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location:
Posts: 94
RE: broadheads
Pass thru, yea I still have them, hence the reasoning for staying with those heads.
Mark, see, I got your wheels turning!!!
There usually isnt too much trouble with fp's, probably cause as stated the shorter length, but I bet also do to the material. There is one broadhead that has failed my spintests miserably, more than any other brand, but to save face, and not get jumped on by many I won't even Mention their name. Hint, Hint.
I am the type of guy who just can't leave well enough alone. I always have to tinker with stuff, to see if I can change/improve its design. In my fishing business, I am constantly making lures to have that something different, that no one else is throwing. I used to be really anal when it came to purchasing all my new bows. I used to drive my buddy crazy, cause I would show up with a micrometer and thouroghly check each bow out. There is human error everywhere, you just have to be able to look for it.
I second Flip13's remark on the GR's. Just screw in and then test them out. The only thing that will change ever so slightly is the balance point or FOC. If the bow is set up mint, with the center shot perfect, little or no adjustment is needed. Bullet holes thru paper will ensure good results.
Jason
Mark, see, I got your wheels turning!!!
There usually isnt too much trouble with fp's, probably cause as stated the shorter length, but I bet also do to the material. There is one broadhead that has failed my spintests miserably, more than any other brand, but to save face, and not get jumped on by many I won't even Mention their name. Hint, Hint. I am the type of guy who just can't leave well enough alone. I always have to tinker with stuff, to see if I can change/improve its design. In my fishing business, I am constantly making lures to have that something different, that no one else is throwing. I used to be really anal when it came to purchasing all my new bows. I used to drive my buddy crazy, cause I would show up with a micrometer and thouroghly check each bow out. There is human error everywhere, you just have to be able to look for it.
I second Flip13's remark on the GR's. Just screw in and then test them out. The only thing that will change ever so slightly is the balance point or FOC. If the bow is set up mint, with the center shot perfect, little or no adjustment is needed. Bullet holes thru paper will ensure good results.
Jason
09-12-2008, 08:45 PM
#16
Fork Horn
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Grand Rapids, MI
Posts: 397
RE: broadheads
Jason, That coMpany has been talked about Many tiMes with buddies of Mine and I know who you Mean. I usually can only get 1/2 the package to spin test out right. I think were on the saMe page right????
Jay
Jay
09-12-2008, 09:10 PM
#17
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location:
Posts: 94
RE: broadheads
Yes Jay, you read my mind! Actually, if anyone who reads this thread is interested in checking their broadheads for straightness, all you need is a drill to check it out. I also use a variable speed Dremel to check mine. I have to play with the speed a little to see the most imperfections.
Jay, I watched the "Grind", again tonight for the 37th time. It doesnt get old, but man, that was some great footage of the double drop. I wish we could re-write the ending for ya though. I really studied that buck with the DVD on pause, and I would guess that buck at 4.5 yo looking at the rack, and possibly 3.5yo looking at his body. The one thing I really hone in on is the size and circumferences of the front forelegs. His were not overly thick yet. It usually takes 4.5-5.5 yo to fully develop there. Also his hinds were a little light. The point, I guess I am trying to make is, after talking to you for a couple hours the other night, and hearing about your spot, I think you may really in for the possibility of that buck looking stupid "HUGE", this season. He has character, and width for sure. I hope he is a resident, and the opportunity presents itself just one more time. Once is all you are going to need.
Jason
Jay, I watched the "Grind", again tonight for the 37th time. It doesnt get old, but man, that was some great footage of the double drop. I wish we could re-write the ending for ya though. I really studied that buck with the DVD on pause, and I would guess that buck at 4.5 yo looking at the rack, and possibly 3.5yo looking at his body. The one thing I really hone in on is the size and circumferences of the front forelegs. His were not overly thick yet. It usually takes 4.5-5.5 yo to fully develop there. Also his hinds were a little light. The point, I guess I am trying to make is, after talking to you for a couple hours the other night, and hearing about your spot, I think you may really in for the possibility of that buck looking stupid "HUGE", this season. He has character, and width for sure. I hope he is a resident, and the opportunity presents itself just one more time. Once is all you are going to need.
Jason
09-13-2008, 01:59 PM
#18
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,933
RE: broadheads
First, no we aren't sponsored by "Shuttle T-Lock".
In-regard to the "deflection". Well, deflection IMO is when you hit an animal on a hard angle, and the arrow changes direction. I've shot a variety of mechanical heads, mostly large cutting diameters, and have never had this happen. Most of my shots have been quartering away shots. For the record, it can and does happen with fixed heads as well. You never know what you may hit in the perfect spot, perfect angle, which could result in a lost animal. Look at the monster Pat Reeve shot with a Muzzy up in Wisconsin. That buck should have been dead as Pat smoked it. He hit a rib just right, which deflected the arrow up between the rib cage and the front leg. A gun hunter ended up killing that buck later that season. Is that considered a fixed head "failure"???
I very rarely get a pass-through with my set-up. Most of the time I get through one side of the rib cage and bury it into the other shoulder. I don't care if I have a pass through if I hit an animal where I aim, which is the whole reason I use Mechanicals in the first place. When you are pushing 1-3/4" diameter of destruction through any big deer, it will absorb a ton of energy. I don't worry about less penetration. IMO, using every ounce of energy is a good thing, unlike pounding a deer with a tiny fixed head where you blow through cutting very little tisue in the process. That is a waste of energy, unless you count the ground on the other side of the deer as damage???
I enjoy following very short bloodtrails that would make some people sick. Blood spraying 10 ft. out the side of a whitetail is the greatest feeling in the world. Fast humain kills are the name of the game. I use what I believe delivers the fastest death blow possible.
In-regard to the "deflection". Well, deflection IMO is when you hit an animal on a hard angle, and the arrow changes direction. I've shot a variety of mechanical heads, mostly large cutting diameters, and have never had this happen. Most of my shots have been quartering away shots. For the record, it can and does happen with fixed heads as well. You never know what you may hit in the perfect spot, perfect angle, which could result in a lost animal. Look at the monster Pat Reeve shot with a Muzzy up in Wisconsin. That buck should have been dead as Pat smoked it. He hit a rib just right, which deflected the arrow up between the rib cage and the front leg. A gun hunter ended up killing that buck later that season. Is that considered a fixed head "failure"???
I very rarely get a pass-through with my set-up. Most of the time I get through one side of the rib cage and bury it into the other shoulder. I don't care if I have a pass through if I hit an animal where I aim, which is the whole reason I use Mechanicals in the first place. When you are pushing 1-3/4" diameter of destruction through any big deer, it will absorb a ton of energy. I don't worry about less penetration. IMO, using every ounce of energy is a good thing, unlike pounding a deer with a tiny fixed head where you blow through cutting very little tisue in the process. That is a waste of energy, unless you count the ground on the other side of the deer as damage???
I enjoy following very short bloodtrails that would make some people sick. Blood spraying 10 ft. out the side of a whitetail is the greatest feeling in the world. Fast humain kills are the name of the game. I use what I believe delivers the fastest death blow possible.
09-13-2008, 05:12 PM
#19
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location:
Posts: 94
RE: broadheads
Todd, when you could only pull 48lbs, you definately are not going to get too many pass thru's anyway!!!
You better get on a good one for this years dvd, Jay and Walt are working hard, and Walt says the buck he takes this year will be the "cover" buck on the next dvd!!![:-][:-][:-]
Someone here has to keep ribbing you!!! Looks like its my job now.
Seriously, though, I wish you guys the best this season.
Jason
You better get on a good one for this years dvd, Jay and Walt are working hard, and Walt says the buck he takes this year will be the "cover" buck on the next dvd!!![:-][:-][:-]
Someone here has to keep ribbing you!!! Looks like its my job now.
Seriously, though, I wish you guys the best this season.
Jason
