indian creek choke black diamond
05-18-2013, 07:50 AM
#21
Fork Horn
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Missouri
Posts: 156
Lou Lou came on here and despite claiming to understand that each gun has it's own specific likes and dislikes trash mouthed a product known to be a fine choke just because it didn't yield good patterns with the "ONE" type of shell he tried through it. He allowed no possibility that it could just be that his gun doesn't like that brand of ammo or perhaps he needs to try a different diameter choke or maybe his gun and that choke just aren't a good match for one another. Nope, the whole brand of choke just sucks and is an inferior product that engages in false advertising based on his very limited testing.
And that's what? A place to BS people into thinking it's OK to take 75 yard shots at turkeys with number 5 shot. And I'm the one that needs to grow up? Please.
Not a bit.
Dear God, the irony. Ethical? Posting about shooting turkeys at 70 yards with number 5 shot on a board that young inexperienced hunters read all the time. That's ethical?
And it's not an arrogant or sheltered view to point out the unfair and really naive nature of Lou Lou's statements. He comes off sounding like one of those guys who buys a pack of broad heads and then comes to the internet to trash mouth them because they don't hit the same place his field tips do. Gee, there is only about 10 reasons why that might be the case which have nothing to do with the quality of the broad head. The same goes for Lou and the IC choke.
I bought a rifle a few years ago. The first ammo I tried through it was Federal Premium. It would only print about a 2 inch group at 100 yards which isn't very impressive. But then I tried some Hornady rounds through it and guess what? It would consistently put 3 shots into about an inch at 100 yards. Which is quite good for a non custom rifle and factory ammo. Does my experience mean that all Federal ammo sucks? Did I hit the internet to proclaim such a thing? No, because I had the common sense to realize that that particular gun just didn't like that particular brand of ammo. Federal premium shells shoot quite well in many peoples rifles including some of mine.
Go to any popular turkey hunting forum and start a thread titled "Indian Creek Chokes Suck". Post it somewhere Like the "Old Gobbler" forums. Use Lou Lou's story word for word as your supporting evidence. You think Brad C and I are being tough on yall? You would be laughed at like you logged onto a science forum and told them the moon was made of green cheese.
And that's what? A place to BS people into thinking it's OK to take 75 yard shots at turkeys with number 5 shot. And I'm the one that needs to grow up? Please.
Not a bit.
Dear God, the irony. Ethical? Posting about shooting turkeys at 70 yards with number 5 shot on a board that young inexperienced hunters read all the time. That's ethical?
And it's not an arrogant or sheltered view to point out the unfair and really naive nature of Lou Lou's statements. He comes off sounding like one of those guys who buys a pack of broad heads and then comes to the internet to trash mouth them because they don't hit the same place his field tips do. Gee, there is only about 10 reasons why that might be the case which have nothing to do with the quality of the broad head. The same goes for Lou and the IC choke.
I bought a rifle a few years ago. The first ammo I tried through it was Federal Premium. It would only print about a 2 inch group at 100 yards which isn't very impressive. But then I tried some Hornady rounds through it and guess what? It would consistently put 3 shots into about an inch at 100 yards. Which is quite good for a non custom rifle and factory ammo. Does my experience mean that all Federal ammo sucks? Did I hit the internet to proclaim such a thing? No, because I had the common sense to realize that that particular gun just didn't like that particular brand of ammo. Federal premium shells shoot quite well in many peoples rifles including some of mine.
Go to any popular turkey hunting forum and start a thread titled "Indian Creek Chokes Suck". Post it somewhere Like the "Old Gobbler" forums. Use Lou Lou's story word for word as your supporting evidence. You think Brad C and I are being tough on yall? You would be laughed at like you logged onto a science forum and told them the moon was made of green cheese.
05-18-2013, 10:42 AM
#22
Fork Horn
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 161
bghunter777,
Let's be honest here. Your post #16 is directly related to your other thread you started that Todd and I tried to and I don't know the right words to use here without you taking as an attack, explain to you about using larger shot at extreme ranges and why that it's not a better choice than using 7's, and that it's not a wise thing to try to count on one of those larger 5's by pure luck finding it's mark to kill a turkey at 60yds or farther. Now we can keep going on like this for days, weeks, or months about who is right and who is wrong. All I wish for you to do when you get the time is to do some reading on turkey hunting forums, Old Gobbler is one of the best, about what we tried to get you to understand about using 5's is ok until you start losing your pattern with them, and you will lose your pattern very quickly once you get to 50yds. Then what you gained in kinetic energy or ft/lbs by using them is no longer an advantage but a disadvantage. So instead of shooting Hevi-13 5's and counting on luck at say 50yds to find a shot that can hit the small vitals of a turkey the 7's will give you multiple hits in the vital areas from a good shotgun and choke combo of course. It's just a game of simple math. The more shot in a pattern the more multiple hits you will have in a given area with the better odds of hitting what your wanting to hit. So I like stacking the odds in my favor. And I know the 7's will easily hit vertebrae at 50yds out of both my turkey guns. But remember this at Old Gobbler, Shannon, the owner has a strict policy of keeping the longer shots past 40yds to yourself.
Now I will kindly tell you that I honestly don't think your a bad guy. And I hope you don't hate Todd and I for what we said to you. Some were only remarks in response to your replies. We could go on with this back and forth trying to get you to understand what we said, and I do think you do understand that relying on luck instead of relying on sheer numbers is the better means of killing a turkey at farther ranges. And I also think you understand about posting about longer shots of what I said in your Hevi-Shot is impressive thread and just keep that to yourself. But I do hope that Todd and I get you and maybe your friends by you talking to them in the future to realize that they truly got lucky on the long range shots if it truly was at the ranges you stated. Now please don't take that as an attack.
I will hope that you take the time to read more up on what guys that truly are in to the education of patterning different guns, chokes, and loads, and taking the time to see what even works better than maybe what they were using. I don't pattern near as much as I used to, but I still enjoy tring to keep up with it. And trust me it is an education process of doing all the things that these guys do to compare the guns, chokes, and loads that they do. Some even reload their own shells using Hevi-Shot or TSS. I know you said your busy man, and I respect that. But you seem to like turkey hunting as much as anyone. And I do respect that. I wish you well in your future hunting. And who knows maybe by you doing some further research and reading on other turkey hunting forums that maybe one day you too will become more a pattterning nut like a lot of the other guys that are out there. And who knows if you do yo might even start shooting Hevi-13 7's or the Federal Heavyweight 7's in the future. Then you can truly look back on all this using Hevi-13 5's and just smile.
Let's be honest here. Your post #16 is directly related to your other thread you started that Todd and I tried to and I don't know the right words to use here without you taking as an attack, explain to you about using larger shot at extreme ranges and why that it's not a better choice than using 7's, and that it's not a wise thing to try to count on one of those larger 5's by pure luck finding it's mark to kill a turkey at 60yds or farther. Now we can keep going on like this for days, weeks, or months about who is right and who is wrong. All I wish for you to do when you get the time is to do some reading on turkey hunting forums, Old Gobbler is one of the best, about what we tried to get you to understand about using 5's is ok until you start losing your pattern with them, and you will lose your pattern very quickly once you get to 50yds. Then what you gained in kinetic energy or ft/lbs by using them is no longer an advantage but a disadvantage. So instead of shooting Hevi-13 5's and counting on luck at say 50yds to find a shot that can hit the small vitals of a turkey the 7's will give you multiple hits in the vital areas from a good shotgun and choke combo of course. It's just a game of simple math. The more shot in a pattern the more multiple hits you will have in a given area with the better odds of hitting what your wanting to hit. So I like stacking the odds in my favor. And I know the 7's will easily hit vertebrae at 50yds out of both my turkey guns. But remember this at Old Gobbler, Shannon, the owner has a strict policy of keeping the longer shots past 40yds to yourself.
Now I will kindly tell you that I honestly don't think your a bad guy. And I hope you don't hate Todd and I for what we said to you. Some were only remarks in response to your replies. We could go on with this back and forth trying to get you to understand what we said, and I do think you do understand that relying on luck instead of relying on sheer numbers is the better means of killing a turkey at farther ranges. And I also think you understand about posting about longer shots of what I said in your Hevi-Shot is impressive thread and just keep that to yourself. But I do hope that Todd and I get you and maybe your friends by you talking to them in the future to realize that they truly got lucky on the long range shots if it truly was at the ranges you stated. Now please don't take that as an attack.
I will hope that you take the time to read more up on what guys that truly are in to the education of patterning different guns, chokes, and loads, and taking the time to see what even works better than maybe what they were using. I don't pattern near as much as I used to, but I still enjoy tring to keep up with it. And trust me it is an education process of doing all the things that these guys do to compare the guns, chokes, and loads that they do. Some even reload their own shells using Hevi-Shot or TSS. I know you said your busy man, and I respect that. But you seem to like turkey hunting as much as anyone. And I do respect that. I wish you well in your future hunting. And who knows maybe by you doing some further research and reading on other turkey hunting forums that maybe one day you too will become more a pattterning nut like a lot of the other guys that are out there. And who knows if you do yo might even start shooting Hevi-13 7's or the Federal Heavyweight 7's in the future. Then you can truly look back on all this using Hevi-13 5's and just smile.
Last edited by Brad C.; 05-18-2013 at 10:49 AM.
05-18-2013, 11:09 AM
#23
Fork Horn
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Missouri
Posts: 156
bghunter777,
Let's be honest here. Your post #16 is directly related to your other thread you started that Todd and I tried to and I don't know the right words to use here without you taking as an attack, explain to you about using larger shot at extreme ranges and why that it's not a better choice than using 7's, and that it's not a wise thing to try to count on one of those larger 5's by pure luck finding it's mark to kill a turkey at 60yds or farther. Now we can keep going on like this for days, weeks, or months about who is right and who is wrong. All I wish for you to do when you get the time is to do some reading on turkey hunting forums, Old Gobbler is one of the best, about what we tried to get you to understand about using 5's is ok until you start losing your pattern with them, and you will lose your pattern very quickly once you get to 50yds. Then what you gained in kinetic energy or ft/lbs by using them is no longer an advantage but a disadvantage. So instead of shooting Hevi-13 5's and counting on luck at say 50yds to find a shot that can hit the small vitals of a turkey the 7's will give you multiple hits in the vital areas from a good shotgun and choke combo of course. It's just a game of simple math. The more shot in a pattern the more multiple hits you will have in a given area with the better odds of hitting what your wanting to hit. So I like stacking the odds in my favor. And I know the 7's will easily hit vertebrae at 50yds out of both my turkey guns. But remember this at Old Gobbler, Shannon, the owner has a strict policy of keeping the longer shots past 40yds to yourself.
Now I will kindly tell you that I honestly don't think your a bad guy. And I hope you don't hate Todd and I for what we said to you. Some were only remarks in response to your replies. We could go on with this back and forth trying to get you to understand what we said, and I do think you do understand that relying on luck instead of relying on sheer numbers is the better means of killing a turkey at farther ranges. And I also think you understand about posting about longer shots of what I said in your Hevi-Shot is impressive thread and just keep that to yourself. But I do hope that Todd and I get you and maybe your friends by you talking to them in the future to realize that they truly got lucky on the long range shots if it truly was at the ranges you stated. Now please don't take that as an attack.
I will hope that you take the time to read more up on what guys that truly are in to the education of patterning different guns, chokes, and loads, and taking the time to see what even works better than maybe what they were using. I don't pattern near as much as I used to, but I still enjoy tring to keep up with it. And trust me it is an education process of doing all the things that these guys do to compare the guns, chokes, and loads that they do. Some even reload their own shells using Hevi-Shot or TSS. I know you said your busy man, and I respect that. But you seem to like turkey hunting as much as anyone. And I do respect that. I wish you well in your future hunting. And who knows maybe by you doing some further research and reading on other turkey hunting forums that maybe one day you too will become more a pattterning nut like a lot of the other guys that are out there. And who knows if you do yo might even start shooting Hevi-13 7's or the Federal Heavyweight 7's in the future. Then you can truly look back on all this using Hevi-13 5's and just smile.
Let's be honest here. Your post #16 is directly related to your other thread you started that Todd and I tried to and I don't know the right words to use here without you taking as an attack, explain to you about using larger shot at extreme ranges and why that it's not a better choice than using 7's, and that it's not a wise thing to try to count on one of those larger 5's by pure luck finding it's mark to kill a turkey at 60yds or farther. Now we can keep going on like this for days, weeks, or months about who is right and who is wrong. All I wish for you to do when you get the time is to do some reading on turkey hunting forums, Old Gobbler is one of the best, about what we tried to get you to understand about using 5's is ok until you start losing your pattern with them, and you will lose your pattern very quickly once you get to 50yds. Then what you gained in kinetic energy or ft/lbs by using them is no longer an advantage but a disadvantage. So instead of shooting Hevi-13 5's and counting on luck at say 50yds to find a shot that can hit the small vitals of a turkey the 7's will give you multiple hits in the vital areas from a good shotgun and choke combo of course. It's just a game of simple math. The more shot in a pattern the more multiple hits you will have in a given area with the better odds of hitting what your wanting to hit. So I like stacking the odds in my favor. And I know the 7's will easily hit vertebrae at 50yds out of both my turkey guns. But remember this at Old Gobbler, Shannon, the owner has a strict policy of keeping the longer shots past 40yds to yourself.
Now I will kindly tell you that I honestly don't think your a bad guy. And I hope you don't hate Todd and I for what we said to you. Some were only remarks in response to your replies. We could go on with this back and forth trying to get you to understand what we said, and I do think you do understand that relying on luck instead of relying on sheer numbers is the better means of killing a turkey at farther ranges. And I also think you understand about posting about longer shots of what I said in your Hevi-Shot is impressive thread and just keep that to yourself. But I do hope that Todd and I get you and maybe your friends by you talking to them in the future to realize that they truly got lucky on the long range shots if it truly was at the ranges you stated. Now please don't take that as an attack.
I will hope that you take the time to read more up on what guys that truly are in to the education of patterning different guns, chokes, and loads, and taking the time to see what even works better than maybe what they were using. I don't pattern near as much as I used to, but I still enjoy tring to keep up with it. And trust me it is an education process of doing all the things that these guys do to compare the guns, chokes, and loads that they do. Some even reload their own shells using Hevi-Shot or TSS. I know you said your busy man, and I respect that. But you seem to like turkey hunting as much as anyone. And I do respect that. I wish you well in your future hunting. And who knows maybe by you doing some further research and reading on other turkey hunting forums that maybe one day you too will become more a pattterning nut like a lot of the other guys that are out there. And who knows if you do yo might even start shooting Hevi-13 7's or the Federal Heavyweight 7's in the future. Then you can truly look back on all this using Hevi-13 5's and just smile.
05-18-2013, 12:07 PM
#24
Banned
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: ohio
Posts: 637
well I shot an IC BDS out of an 870. 3.5 inch 2 oz copper plated #6s putting and average of 136 in the 10 at 40 yards with a dirty barrel! I know guys shooting them from mossbergs, remingtons, benelis and none of them have claimed they suck. most of them did not get the best results from the first shell/load they tried either.
you might have an un-uniform FC (forcing cone) it might be just because your barrel is dirty. you really owe it to IC to do a thorough test before you bash them. your gun no doubt is in need of a deep cleaning and polishing. this will help patterns substantially. your gun might not like that constriction. or those loads. there is just to many variables, most of them you neglected, for you to be able to claim that IC chokes are a fraud. you will likely go through a lot of chokes to find the best when you have your mind set on one load.
out of curiosity lets see some pics of your patterns. was the pattern centered on the turkey head?
you might have an un-uniform FC (forcing cone) it might be just because your barrel is dirty. you really owe it to IC to do a thorough test before you bash them. your gun no doubt is in need of a deep cleaning and polishing. this will help patterns substantially. your gun might not like that constriction. or those loads. there is just to many variables, most of them you neglected, for you to be able to claim that IC chokes are a fraud. you will likely go through a lot of chokes to find the best when you have your mind set on one load.
out of curiosity lets see some pics of your patterns. was the pattern centered on the turkey head?
05-18-2013, 12:15 PM
#25
Banned
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: ohio
Posts: 637
"Switch to Hevi -13 3 1/2 inch #7 shotshells and put a Indian Creek .675 or a Pure Gold .670 choke in, and you will be surprised. This is my first year shooting the Hevi's and i will never go back to lead after seeing the results from them. Im getting 290 pellets in a 10 inch circle at 40 yards out of my Mossberg 935 with a Indian creek .675 Choke."
this is a quote from a turkey hunting site.
this is a quote from a turkey hunting site.
05-18-2013, 12:26 PM
#26
Banned
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: ohio
Posts: 637
I have a 935 with and Indian Creek choke and I shoot 3.5 inch Win supreme 2 oz HV #6. At a lasered 40 yards I am getting 57 pellets in the head and neck and 134 in a paper pie plate.
another quote and this is with lead not HTL!
so as you know every gun is different and just because yours does not like to shoot the load you want to out of that particular choke does not mean they suck. it is also possible that for what ever reason you got a bad choke. things happen when companies manufacture things. it happens to every company.
but since you are set on not using IC. maybe try a jellyhead, puregold, sumtoy, rob Roberts, truglow ssx or a Hevi13 choke. or if you really want to get into it send your gun to Rob Roberts and tell him what kind of shell you want to shoot and he will make a choke that will do what you want it to do and shoot the gun to make sure it does.
another quote and this is with lead not HTL!
so as you know every gun is different and just because yours does not like to shoot the load you want to out of that particular choke does not mean they suck. it is also possible that for what ever reason you got a bad choke. things happen when companies manufacture things. it happens to every company.
but since you are set on not using IC. maybe try a jellyhead, puregold, sumtoy, rob Roberts, truglow ssx or a Hevi13 choke. or if you really want to get into it send your gun to Rob Roberts and tell him what kind of shell you want to shoot and he will make a choke that will do what you want it to do and shoot the gun to make sure it does.
05-18-2013, 06:13 PM
#27
Fork Horn
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 161
"Switch to Hevi -13 3 1/2 inch #7 shotshells and put a Indian Creek .675 or a Pure Gold .670 choke in, and you will be surprised. This is my first year shooting the Hevi's and i will never go back to lead after seeing the results from them. Im getting 290 pellets in a 10 inch circle at 40 yards out of my Mossberg 935 with a Indian creek .675 Choke."
this is a quote from a turkey hunting site.
this is a quote from a turkey hunting site.
