JW

Well there are seminars designed more so to sell and then there are seminars there to help teach. That is what I meant by my comment to Hard Luck - he has 45 yrs of experience. I know he could teach me something!

Now that being said - I have bought CDs from those Teachers - Have not bought CDs of those so called Kill videos - never have as I can see parts of em on OLN.
But from what I call teachers I'll mention a few - one big one is Lovett Williams - another just commented here and that is Adrian Hare. I did purcase his CD and did pick up a tip or two and it gave me many others to ponder. That is what I look for.

The rest if they are on an the ole Outdoor TV program - well I don't need those types videosI call watch my kill type videos. I don't buy them never have. I can do that myself. Tho I do watch em free on TV - not for the kill aspect - not for the banter - but to hearReal turkey voices and MORE SO to see live footage and concentrate deeply on the mannerisms, body movements, etc of any real turkey they show on that tape! You can learn a lot right there. There has been some that with the sound off - I tell myself - that bird is nervous.

Oh and Adrian's Video was the first Video I ever bought. The others are Williams CDs of real turkey voices and calls and the Monarchs of a spring morning - a NWTF real turkey voice cd - no narration - just loads of natural spring turkey chatter. \


JW

kingvjack

Like a moth to the flame.... everytime....

Adrian J Hare

JW, thanks for the kind words,

It is funny when it comes to Learning skills and how one wants to take it. I don't consider myself a Pro but rather a person that has spent a large amount of time in the turkey woods all over North America that I learned from the real thing to the point I start to see things over and over.

Last spring season I spent over 70 days in the field between Florida and Ontario and after one puts that amount of time in, I have opinions on some things that happen.

I know of some others out there, that have the same time or even more then I and these guys know their stuff, but not evey Pro Staffer will take a bird everyday, it is not going to happen no matter how much you know and How many birds you have under your belt. We all enjoy the sport because that wize ol Gobbler out thought us.

I enjoy sitting here reading the posts from all of you as I can feel myself on the front lines of most stories, that gets me excited for the spring and I do learn the odd thing from you too

JW

hehe - thanks AH! Now that is a real compliment.

I am 1st to admit not I AMNOT EVEN close to an expert! Not a Rookie in my adeled mind certainly not an expert. Never will be! I have missed, have goofed, have made many mistakes and will do more! Have hunted a few years not as many as others here.

But I try not make the same mistake, goof, stoopid move, over again.....I try to analize - find a solution - so I don't repeat.

ANDI try sharethru this media, my experiences, to maybe help you if ya run into a similar situation......ain't gospel - but food for thought.

JW

nchawkeye

About 25 years ago I attended a weekend seminar on bass fishing...There were several different classes that we attended and one of these was on how to determine what depth you should start fishing...The instructor went through checking oxygen at different levels, checking temperature, checking ph at different levels and using a ColorSelector, of course all of these were for sale...Toward the end, I asked him if he used a depth finder, he said "Of course"...I then asked what would be wrong with cruising around with the depth finder, marking fish and then start fishing at the level that you marked most of the fish at....You could have heard a pin drop...

Roadkillwarrior

I learned every thing I know about turkeys from my own experiences and just being in the woods alot around these birds. I believe it will make it harder on you if you try and take someones advice about hunting if you realy dont konw that much about what you are doing. Its like someone trying to explain to you how to drive a stick for the first time and you go out and cant figure out what you are doing wrong. Eventually after while you start to figure it out and may even come up with your own little tricks. I have talked and listened to guys who know a great deal about turkey hunting and even though alot of the things they do are similiar, each person has their own technique or style of hunting.

OntElk

Most pro-staffers I have spoke with speak highly of the wise old veteran turkey hunter who hunts with one call and his jeans. Why does the wise old turkey hunter bash the pro-staffer?

Knowing a couple of these seminar speaking, pro-staff, product pushin' fellas I can say they are first and foremost just good ole turkey hunters who have the addiction same as you and I. When hunting with them brand names NEVER come up. The only thing that comes up is a turkeys head occasionally.

I think they do it for the pretty Pro-Staffer shirts. Right AJH ?[8D]

Dr Andy

Ah, the business world! Reminds me of a comic strip cartoon I once saw in In Fisherman magazine. Imagine if you will a giant bass sitting inside of an old tire, the tire surrounded with a variety of lures, hung up around the tire like trophy's.The wily old bass is looking very interested in a new lure he sees passing in front of him.....

They want to sell you more stuff!

And I'm the fool that's buying it!

Arrowmaster

Basically its all about the money. They develop more things everyday. Whats next GPS on the wildlife. They are trying to make things to easy to make money. The sad part is quite a few by their products to make it easier on them. Im from the old school. I rely on my scouting. I know where the birds I hunt are. Im constantly studying the wild turkey. As a matter of fact I have 3 pet turkeys here. They are easterns and they have taught me way more than any seminar or hunting video. Dont get me wrong I love watching the hunting videos. Ive learned more from older verteran hunters and my own turkeys, than I have from watching videos... Just my thoughts...

SwampCollie

Thats exactly my point.... kind of.....

The way I conduct my seminars is just like I was talking to you one on one. I'm not selling anything... I don't care if you buy something or not.

I did a seminar today on how to kill turkeys with $50. $10 for shells, $10 for cushion, $20 for box call/slate call, $10 for gloves and facemask. As far as I'm concerned as long as you own a shotgun and camo shirt and earth-tone pants... you don't NEED anything else (toilet paper is a nice luxury though). The point of that talk, was just to get deer hunters to try out turkey hunting...the license is combined in VA.... the thought process of course is that once they try it, they are hooked... you cannot deny the underlying motivation of any seminar is to generate either sales or at least foot traffic (which is tied to sales directly). But everything is....

Take this website for example... you think it runs itself? They sell advertising to generate funds.... and they do that by having a lot of hits on the internet so they can show their potential customers that their ad will be exposed to several million viewers. Everytime you log-in to hunting.net... Justin Zarr's cash register rings ... or at least it used to... I know the site was sold.. I don't know the specifics.... but the point here is that money makes the industry go around. If it wasn't for license dollars, and taxes claimed on sales of goods, hunting would have vanished decades ago.


I have always maintained that an educated customer is a customer that will keep coming back. I frequently tell folks outright that a product is just snake oil, if it is uneccessary for what they want it for. People remember that. There is nothing better you can do customer service wise than save someone money just for the sake of doing it. At the same time, the second best thing you can do, is show them ALL of the options that are avavilable to them......Thats the point of seminars. Someone may not even know that turkey hunting was an option for them. Oh.... thats what those three tags on the other half of my license are....

Do I think you should go to a seminar... hell yes I do.... you might learn something. Just because it might seem like a sales pitch doesn't mean you can't learn something from it. Or heck, maybe you'll strike up a conversation with someone in the audience and learn something that way. I don't structure my seminars around sales... I structure them around education. My reward is a picture of someone I met with a bird, and them telling me that a tip I gave them worked just like a charm, and that because I told them how to go about patterning their gun, the bird went down like he'd been electrocuted.... and that they can't wait til next Saturday to go at 'em again.

If someone asks me about what call I use... and I sell them a $70 Woodhaven... then thats good for Mike Pentecost.... and if he decides to ever HAVE a pro-staff... they are a company I'd glady put my name next to. Ironically, the company I was a prostaffer for, I decided to dis-align myself with due to some rather shady business dealings and in what was my opinion some alliences that I saw were not good for the sport of hunting or its image. I'm more of a freelance writer now than I was when I got onboard with them, and I am requested for seminars locally because I have a good reputation, can relate to people and have a lot of experience. Mr. Longbeard, on the other hand, doesn't do that so well it seems. So he decides to throw stones at people he has never met before... just an example of what it takes and what is considered undesireable. You'll get folks like this in the audience... people who think that folks that bother to take the time to help others learn are just show boating for someone, or don't really know anything. And thats fine, they can think what they want... the cream always rises... and if you do know your game and have any amount of candor.... you'll have their attention pretty quick.