HuntingNet.com Forums - Elitist attitude

HuntingNet.com Forums (https://www.huntingnet.com/forum/)

- Traditional Archery (https://www.huntingnet.com/forum/traditional-archery-19/)

- - Elitist attitude (https://www.huntingnet.com/forum/traditional-archery/234599-elitist-attitude.html)

RE: Elitist attitude

Just for clarification, I don't know squat about the P&Y club, and don't base my opinions on anything they have decided.

BD, if anything you should know I'm consistent and stubborn. I'm still not going to get drawn into the compound part of this.

If anything, this thread has really made me think more about why I'm sostrongly against crossbows in the archery-only season.I still don't consider them to be a bow, but what really makes me nervous is what they have the potential to become. As I said several pages back, look at the difference in compound bows 10-15 years ago and now. Open the gates, give manufacturers a reason to pour money into it, the sky is the limit. Once in, there's no getting it out.

Quote:

can you hunt in muzzleloader season with your trad bow ?

Actually it's called "primitive weapons" season (when muzzleloaders are allowed), and yes I can use a bow during that season. I can also legally ride a little motor scooter on a busy interstate. Get my drift?

Quote:

NEVER not ONCE has crossbows being legal led to a negative.

You keep forgetting the fellow from AR I had the discussion with. I would never purposely hunt the same area with someone like that for fear of moving at the wrong time/in the wrong place and getting shot by his "jump and shoot bow". That was his main argument for using a crossbow--because he could take a shot with it in a split second.

Quote:

Powder/bang is what seperates them.

In your opinion, but not according to most state game regs, or in my opinion. Walking around/sitting with it cocked/loaded for an indefinate amount of time, the ability to take a split-second shot, stock/forearm/trigger--those are aspects of a rifle and a crossbow, but not a bow, and very much separates them from a bow.

Those who wish for one season are liable to get what they wish for. Ok, let the crossbows into the archery season. Muzzleloader advocates can say "hey, you let them in--flintlocks are basically the same as crossbows--primitive, low impact, one shot, close range.......we want in too!!!" and on and on and on--on top of the obvious fact that I've mentioned over and over--open the gates, the tech race is on, and no telling what they (crossbows)will be capable of in the next 10 years.

Is it that hard for us to see past our noses? Are we too stupid to look at where compounds have gone in the last 10 years?

RE: Elitist attitude

Quote:

question Double Creek - a recurve with peep, sights and mechanical release ....... same thing as a compound then for the most part ?

I guess that depends on what type of compound you are talking about.... Are we talking about barebow compound or totally tricked out? The only difference I see between a compound and the bow you describe above is the letoff factor... Which granted, is huge....

I make no bones than 99.9% of the time, a compound is an easier weapon to use.... As is a recurve over a selfbow... Its all the goodies that come with a compound that make it easier, primarily the mechanical release....

RE: Elitist attitude

Quote:

ORIGINAL: LBR

Quote:

I actually have read this entire thread(haven't figured out why yet) so I'm not sure what exactly your trying to imply.

I assumed you hadn't because you seemed to be directing questions at me that I'd already covered.

Quote:

Because archery season was establishedyears ago that means the seasons can't evolve tofit what hunting is now?And does it also meanthat anyone whowants evensmall changesis "riding coattails" and should just get their own season. Right, that makes perfect sense we should approach all thing in life with those blinders on.

It is what it is. Archery season--bows and arrows. That's what it was established for.

Quote:

Archery season is primative weapons season, there is no difference.

I'm just not sure how to take that statement. I don't think anyone even remotely familiar with the weapons are ignorant enough to actually believe there is no difference between bows, crossbows,muzzleloaders, and in some places certain caliber single-shot centerfire rifles--all considered "primitive" weapons.

Quote:

So why should2 of the three primative weapons(bows/bp) have their own part of the whole primative seasonand thethird(xbows) has nothing and not only nothing butoppositionagainst beingincluded in the archery part of theprimitive weapons season that already exists and that it fits in(since it is a bow+).

You are just wrong there, at least concerning MS (where I live). Crossbows can be used during primitive weapons season and rifle season. We (archery hunters) lost two weeks of our season to primitive weapons season a few years ago. What we have left, most hunters don't care to get out in to begin with (already went over all that also). So just what are we taking again? How are we being selfish?

Quote:

How does it effect you negativelyas a bow hunter ifcrossbow hunters are in the woods? Go ahead and tell me this has already been covered, I readit and the reasoning is shallow at best and just plain greedy at worst.

Maybe you read it--you sure don't bother to try to comprehend or understand it.

Quote:

LBR trust me I get it.

It's very obvious you don't, and I don't think you care to. You say you've read the entire thread, but obviously you ignored parts of it. I've stated several times I have nothing against the weapons themselves, or the people that use them, yet you state just the opposite. Pretty sure I know my feelings better than you do.

At the risk of dragging out a ridiculously long thread even more, here's how I see it.

There's a very few die-hard crossbow enthusiasts who enjoy the weapon for the spirit of the weapon--like Wyvern and Art, who have gone as far as building true primitive replicas of the weapons. I can respect that, but they are a tiny fraction of a fraction of the minority, and even though that is the type hunter that could get a season established for them, there's not anywhere near enough of them to get anything done. Life ain't fair. They can at least use their weapon of choice in primitive weapons season, and in at least some states during gun season.

You have another small fraction, although much larger than the above still small, of disabled and elderly hunters who honestly cannot physically shoot a bow. Most states (including MS) have provisions for those people and allow them to use crossbows during archery season. I can live with that.

The majority of what's left are people who don't want to bother learning to shoot a bow and/or think the crossbow is a magical weapon far superior to a bow (it's not), but want to extend their hunting season beyond rifle and primitiveweaponsseasons. They don't care to work for getting their own season established, so the only thing left is to try to barge in on the short period of time that only bows are allowed in the hunting woods.

We have the shortest amount of time allotted for specific weapons seasons, and we generally have the least desireable time of the season (at least we do in MS). Yet because we want to keep the season what it is, and what it was fought for and established for, we are just shallow,greedy and selfish?:D Give me a break.......:eek:

Hey, your granddad worked his butt off all his life, made sacrifices, and thanks to him your father and now youare able to live a comfortable life. The next guy comes along, his granddad didn't do the work and make the sacrifices, neither did his dad, and now he isn't willing to either--but he wants you to give him an equal part of what's yours. Are you going to split what you have with him right down the middle just because he wants it? Or are you one of those shallow, greedy, selfish types?

Chad

My comprehension is fine and fortunatleyI am able to seewe are talking from not only different opinions but different kinds of exposure to the same topic. There is no need totalk "at" me or down to me Ias I'm sure you know opinionsare just that, opinions,they arerarely a 100% right or 100% wrong, there is usually some middle ground of understanding the other side/perspective(doesn't mean you have toagree).You are entitled to yours and I'm entitled to mine and I am not trying to convince you to change yours, I'm just offering a different perspective from a different region with a different history. I'm not sure how you can sayyou have no problem with xbows or xbow hunters andin the same breathsay I don't want themhunting in bow season, that seemslike a contradiction. Where I will say I am ignorant is to your(MS) game laws and when I am speaking I am not speaking about MS I am speaking from my perspective (VA) which has enjoyedpositive results with xbows in archery season. What may be "completely wrong" for you or your state is right in my state and what I am used to.

Of course the weapons used in the primitive weapons season are different(our two states recognize them completely differentlyVA doesn't even use that term anymore), what I meant was they are all still primitive weapons and I don't understand the need for all of the seperation. Between archery & bp I canunderstand but why bows & x bows, again I am looking at this from an area where xbows were simply added to bow season and it worked out very well.Based on whatyou said you lost two weeks of bowhunting to primitive weapons season which I agree would suck, and after looking at the site(MSWFP) I see where you can xbow hunt during gun and bp season(or primitive) I guess I just don't see what difference it would make if they had made it legal duringgun and archery, but again that is because I am from a state that did it that way and it worked,also we can use our bows during all seasons(even bp)if we follow that seasons harvest regs.

Was your archery season from Oct. 1 (or15 Zone 2) through Nov.16 andcan you still bowhunt during the firearms season or primitive seasons? That seems like a fairly long bow season(4-6 weeks), is that "the least desireable" time to be out there? What two weeks went away, wasthe late primitive weapons seasona late bow season in the past or was it the early one? I am just curious andattempting to be a little lessignorant of your state byasking.

I do think if you experienced VA's changes and transitions you would have a better idea of my side and my point that crossbows had little impact just like if I lived there I might feel differently. I know many hunters are not selfish/greedy but I have met many who are and haveheard many(in my state) who opposed xbows but had no real reason other than they don't want them in "their" bow season and just hated x bows for whatever reason, and then aftercrossbows werelegalized and nothing really changedit just seemed likemuch ado about nothing. In my mind it is Ok for someone to just prefer to shoot a xbow if they want just like I might prefer a compound or my recurve, I don't consider myself more of a "bow hunter" because of the particular weapon in hand and especially after seeing the results here in VAI don't care what someoneprefers to huntwith as long as they are safe, legal, and enjoying themselves.

Everthing above that cameafter this sentence,

Quote:

ORIGINAL: LBR
At the risk of dragging out a ridiculously long thread even more, here's how I see it.

was interesting, I guess.:eek: Quote us your sources on those stats.;)

Quote:

ORIGINAL: LBR
We have the shortest amount of time allotted for specific weapons seasons, and we generally have the least desireable time of the season (at least we do in MS). Yet because we want to keep the season what it is, and what it was fought for and established for, we are just shallow,greedy and selfish?:D Give me a break.......

Are these your season dates from last year?

DEER
SEASON DATES
LEGALDEER

Archery

[align=center][align=center]Oct. 1 , 2007-
Nov. 16, 2007[/align][/align]

Youth Gun
(Youth less than 16 years old)

[/align]
[align=center][align=center]Nov. 10, 2007-
Nov. 16, 2007[/align][/align]
Either-Sex on private lands and authorized state or federal public lands.

Gun
(with dogs)
[align=center][align=center]Nov. 17, 2007-
Nov. 30, 2007[/align][/align]

Primitive Weapon
[align=center][align=center]Dec. 1, 2007-
Dec. 14, 2007[/align][/align]

Gun
(without dogs)
[align=center]Dec. 15, 2007-
Dec. 16, 2007[/align]
Either-Sex on private and open public lands.

[align=center][align=center]Dec. 17, 2007-
Dec. 23, 2007[/align][/align]

Gun
(with dogs)

[align=center][align=center]Dec. 24, 2007-
Jan. 17, 2008[/align][/align]

Primitive Weapon
[align=center][align=center]Jan. 18, 2008-
Jan. 31, 2008[/align][/align]

Archery season seems pretty long, am I looking atthe right info?

RE: Elitist attitude

Quote:

Was your archery season from Oct. 1 (or15 Zone 2) through Nov.16 andcan you still bowhunt during the firearms season or primitive seasons?

Mine opens Oct 1st, and I can use a bow for the entire season if I choose, as long as I follow the same regs the season requires (ex., wearing 500 inches minimum of hunter orange during primitive weapons and rifle season). Like I told BD, I also have the legal option or riding a little motor scooter in 8-lane Interstate traffic too. Right now I have archery season--the equivelent of having a safe lane for just the guys riding scooters.

Quote:

That seems like a fairly long bow season(4-6 weeks), is that "the least desireable" time to be out there?

It is a fairly long season--for now anyway. It's also very hot, everything is still green, biting flies/ticks/snakes are still very active, natural food sources are everywhere.......

Quote:

What two weeks went away, wasthe late primitive weapons seasona late bow season in the past or was it the early one?

The last two weeks of Jan used to be archery only. IMO prime hunting weather has barely startedat that time. We got our first snow of the year (probably only one) this past weekend. If I had my rathers, I'd give up October and take February for bow hunting.

Quote:

I do think if you experienced VA's changes and transitions you would have a better idea of my side and my point that crossbows had little impact just like if I lived there I might feel differently.

I can appreciate your opinion, but I really don't think my opinionwould change. My main argument is a crossbow isn't a bow--that wouldn't change if I lived in VA, MS, or Australia. It's primitive, it's single-shot, it's low-impact, it's limited range, but it isn't a bow--so it doesn't belong in archery season. My main concern isn't what crossbows currently are, but what they have the potential of becoming. One thing is for sure--they will never be just a bow, and the technology sure ain't going to go backwards.

RE: Elitist attitude

I can understand wanting that late season as VA's statewidebow season is usually hot and miserable as well(startsOct.6-7 usually). I do get a late season(Dec. 1 -Jan.)in two countiesand we share most ofit with bp hunters as well so I can understand the "scooter" analogy but I still bowhunt a lot during that period. In the past couple of seasons VA has been adding some lates seasons for antlerless only that run into February and in some "Urban Archery Areas" into March.

The technology is definitely taking leaps and bounds for all bows (but compounds & xbows especially) so that could be a slippery slope, I guess only time will tell.

RE: Elitist attitude

New- To me its all 100% about the bow hunting heritage! It may not bother you but damn it bothers me! Its got nothing to do with more hunter#'s with me. Its never been a part of bow hunting in the USA, why does it have to be now? I respect your opinions New, Wyvern, I really do! I guess I'm more conservative then you guys and I don't ever see myself changing my ways on bow hunting the (new way).

RE: Elitist attitude

Quote:

The technology is definitely taking leaps and bounds for all bows (but compounds & xbows especially) so that could be a slippery slope, I guess only time will tell.

Time has already told us--look at a compound from 10-15 years ago, and look at one today. As far as that goes, look at a crossbow from 10-15 years ago compared to the one Matt talked about at the beginning of this thread. As far as the crossbows go, these advances have been made even with the tiny fraction of the market they carry.

RE: Elitist attitude

"To me its all 100% about the bow hunting heritage!"

PERFECT!!! IF that is the case...then crossbows are bowhunting...

this painting was done in 1412!!!! If that is not "bowhunting heritage" then I dont know what is...

Wyvern

RE: Elitist attitude

Quote:

ORIGINAL: Wyvern Crossbow

"To me its all 100% about the bow hunting heritage!"

PERFECT!!! IF that is the case...then crossbows are bowhunting...

this painting was done in 1412!!!! If that is not "bowhunting heritage" then I dont know what is...

Wyvern

Damn!! You have dogs and crossbows in the same picture, this could get ugly. jk;)

Shultzy, I can understand and it's all good, I am only 32 so I grew up on compounds and the "newer" side of archery. I got into traditional gear to challenge myself and because it is so much more straight forward and a little bit more fun to me as far as just shooting. I don't have to worry about my release, which pin to use, is my sight level, don't creep, etc. etc . etc. But I also wasn't "brought up" on it so I could be missing something, here's one of my favorite pics from this season:

RE: Elitist attitude

Quote:

ORIGINAL: NEW61375

Schultzy, I can understand and it's all good, I am only 32 so I grew up on compounds and the "newer" side of archery. I got into traditional gear to challenge myself and because it is so much more straight forward and a little bit more fun to me as far as just shooting. I don't have to worry about my release, which pin to use, is my sight level, don't creep, etc. etc . etc. But I also wasn't "brought up" on it so I could be missing something, here's one of my favorite pics from this season:

Nice looking recurve there New! Just to let you know I'm not that old myself, I'm only 33 and I grew up with the technology coming into play as well. I did shoot compound for 10 years and really liked it. I didn't use a release (didn't believe in them), let off was less than 65% on my XI Impact. It was allot of fun but it was time for a switch and it was the best thing I did. My dad has been shooting Traditional for 30+ years (recurve first and he now uses a Longbow). Switching over for me was easier then most being I had a great mentor!