Hey Arthur P, so do I agree with Ashby. But the issue in the thread is whether or not lighter arrows shot from the same bow carry less or more KE/momentum than heavier arrows shot from the same bow. I believe you agree with me in that heavier arrows means more ke/momentum. Isn't that correct?

500 fps wrote: Another fine example of in depth technical discussion by the method of name calling and my experts better than yours. Please keep it up, it was annoying to me at first but now I find it simply amusing!

Thank you Len!

One only needs to test his own bow with various weights of arrows through a chronograph and you'll see that you will gain about 3 to 4 ft. lbs. K.E. with the heaviest arrows. How much of this will make a difference on our deer?? not much. I think we shoot through more air,, inside a deer,, than most realize. My wife made the most beautiful (if there is such a thing) shot on her whitetail buck last year with her 55 pound and 26 inch Patriot VFT. The arrow weighed 340 grains and started out at about 254 fps. The shot was quartering away and the arrow passed through, hitting shoulder bone on the way out and bending two of the three blades on the 100 grain Muzzy. The arrow lay on the ground, pointing the direction it was originally shot and about 5 feet past where the deer was hit.

How much K.E. do we actually need? Not all that much but some extra is sure good insurance against bone.

Sylvan,,, don't let them run you off

I agree completely. A good sharp broadhead riding on even a 5 grain/pound bow arrow combo and shot by an archer of average strength is a deadly prospect.

BTW, thanks for the encouragement. And congratulations to your wife!

http://forum.hunting.net/asppg/tm.as...1&key=&#950388



Here is a thread with some actual speeds and arrow weights I shot back when I first got my Allegiance, well before this discussion came up. Calculate the KE of the 345 gr arrow vs the 360 gr arrow. You'll get 80.94 lb-ft vs. 80.86 lb-ft. The lighter arrow has more KE. A small difference to be sure, but real nonethless.

The difference is more significant on high energy storing single cams like the PSE Carrera, Black Max, and Bowtech Extrem Solo. The numbers I got back then were in the neighbor hood of 1- 3 ft lbs over that same weight range.

I'm sorry if this flies in the face of what you thought you knew.

No, it's like I keep saying to you, if you believe it to be idiotic, go and tell the man himself instead of calling his statements exagerated and idiotic (I'm feeling like a broken record). It is possible. Why proclaim to people the Dr. Ashby's finding and statements (or some of them) are idiotic and exagerated when you can tell him yourself. Thats the only point that I'm trying to make.

Why are you saying I am defending it. I don't see that. I just reread my posts. Maybe you could elaborate. FWIW, I do believe he is the expert in the area.

Sorry, I just kind of assumed that you did less testing in the area then Dr. Ashby. Maybe I was wrong.

See, this is what I am talking about. This doesn't prove the 345 grain arrow will out penetrate the 360 grain arrow. It also doesn't prove that 345 grain arrow will out penetrate a 400 grain arrow from the exact same bow.

why are you pursuing this so? By doing so, it does imply (and certainly appears so) that you have taken the stance to defend Dr. Ashby's original statement. Then you say, that you aren't defending it...I believe you're confusing everyone on the board...

Oh boy, I almost dont want to enter this for fear of arguing.

So let me start off by saying, I dont guarantee to be right with everything I say, Im certainly no expert. However I do have a pretty good understanding of how bows work and all the other good stuff.


My thoughts on the matter are this;

From what I understand, NO bow is 100% efficient, no matter what size or weight arrow. But for the sake of simplicity we will pretend they are.
Infact all my numbers are going to be made up for the sake of simplicity.

So we take Bow A. and shoot arrows A through D out of it.

You will find that there will be several size and weight arrows that will allow you to get very close to 100% efficiency.

Because its a matter of give and take.

Arrow A weighs 500 grains and fires at 245 fps. This arrow receives 100% of the energy from the bow.

Arrow B weighs 450 grains and fires at 290 fps. This arrow receives 90% of the energy.

Arrow C weighs 900 grains and fires at 150 fps. Arrow A already received 100% of the bows energy, so this arrow can not receive any more. Therefore the KE will diminish, because while it may be receiving the full energy, the speed is much lower due to the extra mass (weight) that is there for no reason.

Arrow D weighs 200 grains and fires at 305 fps. This arrow only receives 60% of the bows energy, distributing the rest through your bows limbs and riser. Though it fires faster than arrows A and B....it receives less of the energy, thereby lowering its KE as well.


Basically what Im saying is, there will be a certain range of arrows slightly differing in size and weight that each bow will get the maximum amount of KE out of. They may not be EXACT, but they will be within tenths of a pound.

So then you have to decide what you need more of, KE or Speed?
There are going to be several options for you to decide from. Some will be pretty close to each other in KE but differ quite a bit in speed and weight.

If you're bowhunting African big game, I hope you use a cut on contact and choose the KE.

If you're bowhunting whitetails or mulies in open country, choose the speedier arrow, it will allow you some room to misjudge distance and still hit rather close to the intended spot. Without worries of missing high or low.

If you bowhunt whitetails in the East you have the pick of the litter. You dont need the speed because shots are normally VERY close. But the speed helps simplify if you want only one pin. You dont need very much KE because its just a whitetail, but if you want to use large cutting diameter broadheads or mechanicals, make sure you have enough KE to get the job done. If you want TONS of KE go for it...but you dont need it.

NO matter what! MAKE sure that you take the most ethical shots you can, and bring the quickest most humane end to the animals life that you can.

Finally, if you dont want to figure out all of this stuff you probably dont have to. If your shooting an avg set-up of between 55-65 pounds, with an avg draw of 28-30". Using an avg weight arrow of 400 grns. and a fixed blade or replaceable blade bh. You will have enough KE for whitetails and most game in N. America.

If you plan on using mechs though, or hunting larger game, run the numbers and do a check on what you're set-up will be getting as far as KE goes. You dont want to wound an animal because you dont like playing with numbers.

Have a good one---Matt