Deflex riser + 65% or less letoff + smooth hard plastic or wood, HIGH WRIST grip.

With such a setup, your hand naturally and automatically slides into exactly the same position each and every time you grap the bow, especially if you use talcum powder on your bowhand or use a slick glove. It's almost impossible to torque that kind of rig. Of course, you get a higher brace height so the chrony numbers aren't nearly as impressive, but I prefer having the shooting qualities instead of the excess speed.

The Hoyt ProVantage/SuperSlam risers are still my all time favorites because they're SO easy to shoot well.

That's the feeling I get with a high wrist grip with a palm swell. I really like the older grips of this design, such as those from PSE, Bowtech and Mathews. Mathews current competition grip isn't too bad either.

My Diamond Hornet has two thin side plates on a thin riser. If I consistently put my hand in the high wrist position, I'm fine. It just doesn't have the palm swell to remind me to do so. I like the feeling of contact the palm swell provides. Not grabbing it, it's just naturally resting against my hand so I know it's there, makes me steadier, like balancing on one foot is easier if you have a finger touching a wall or something.

I looked into a custom grip, but I'd have to send them my bow to do so, and I'd rather put the $50-60 towards a new bow next year... maybe

I've got a chunk of mesquite heartwood out in the garage that's dying to become something useful. One of these days, I'm gonna drag out my Dremel tool and make myself a high wrist custom grip for my ProTec. If I can ever lay off whittling on my stickbows.

Range, Thanks so much for posting this article. I've been skimming over this thread and finally read it. I needed it.
I like the layout of the article and how easy it reads. Plus the information inside might just help me out of a recent slump I've found myself in.
My groups at 20 are money with both fp and fixed blades. I finally found time to step back to 30 with fixed blades and . Not good.
Last years set up I was at 1" groups at 30. Lets just say I'm not there with my new rig- yet.
I was scamming on what to try next, but I think I will try this glove trick first. Then I'll go into moving my rest in and out.

I can't believe my opener is next weekend and I'm still tweaking[:@], can I buy some time?

I think I'll go read some more of those easy to read articles!

BTW, I think a lot of my problem is I'm using my backup release which is a tad longer than my primary Truball which got sent back last week so they could remove the gap in the jaws when in the closed position.
I WANT MY RELEASE BACK[&o].

That and the fact that my secondary pin (which sits in front of the black primary pins post) on my savage pendulum pretty much covers the target at 30 yards[&o].

Dave, glad you found it helpful.

Couldn't come up with a jersey glove, so I grabbed a storm cloth glove I bought last year that is water/windproof. Not sure what it's made of, but it's really slick and form fitting

I had shot several shots earlier this am, same issue, impact was non-consistent, depending on hand placement. By non-consistent I should point out that group size was around 2.5" at 25 yards.

Slipped the glove on, went to pull arrow from target. Figured out real quick the glove was slick Walked back to 25 yards (max I can shoot indoors where I'm set up), set high wrist, draw letting bow settle where it wants, anchor, NP is perfectly lined up, aim release. Pulled arrow, repeated.

Holy Crap, would have been a robin hood if I would've shot a second arrow. Proceeded to stack arrow after arrow into a nickel size spot. I'm still smiling like this

It was an amazing difference. Give this a shot if you don't already, I highly recommend it. Bow just settles into the same spot in my hand with no effort on my part. Made a big difference for me.

I just scent free washed a pair of gloves 2 days ago that should work out perfectly. Now I just need to get home and give it a whirl.

Come on 16:30 !

Forgot to add, I shoot a Savage Pendulum also, with the one pin. I had always assumed my 2-3" grouping was due to the .03" pin size, even contacted Savage awhile back to see if I could get a smaller pin, but they don't make them.

This experience has proven to me that as long as I get the same sight picture, it's hand placement, not pin size, provided the sight's adjusted properly. Of course this is for a hunting bow, would probably be different if I were trying to hit an itty bitty spot with money on the line

I can do well with the primary pin. But the way the secondary pin sits on a Savage it is directly in front of the post that hold the primary AND it is a piece of fiber optic with the end burnt into a small blob. This covers up my circles on my target. So I tried just aiming for 20 and letting the arrows fall below, but it wasn't any good either.

You right about the hunting bow part, that's why I use a pendulum. I'm just trying to make sure if a 30 yard shot on a pig presents itself my BH tipped arrow will land true.

I know I'll get this figured out before season, I just hate sitting here helpless when I could be tweaking.

I assume you are talking about a ground level shot of 30 yards? Have you tried seeing how much kentucky windage it takes and ditching the secondary pin?

How fast are you shooting? At 278 fps, I can get 0-33 yards with my pendulum from a tree. I have my pin set for dead on at 25 yards ground level. By aiming a tad high, I can hit 30 on level ground fairly easy...