Talk about inferior, Silent, you would laugh if you saw one of the bows I was shooting this morning. Looks like a Sims ad gone wrong![8D] BUT, I wrecked another arrow ACC at that, cause I thought I could shoot two broadheads at the same spot at 30 yards. The Slick Trick (second arrow) did a slice and peel on some of the carbon layer of the first ACC. Now I am down to 6 until my local shop gets some more in.

Still think (assuming good arrows and good tune) that feeling comfortable and confident in your choice of equipment is at least as important as exactly what that equipment happens to be.

Well, the only thing I can add to all this is...
I've said it before and I'm saying it again.
If you're not shooting the equipment Ol'Sag is shooting, you're not shooting the best!


Sag.

Hey Sag....what did that 'curve come walking by your bow blind or what?? Kinda looske like you took the picture while sitting in box as if hunting.

And here I thought "Bowhunting" was USING a bow to kill stuff....not actually HUNTING for bows

I think I completely took this post the wrong way! For some reason I didn't see the "testing" part of the "technical testing" line. Ooops. I suppose you are comparing the reviews we do compared to the high tec reviews you see in magazines or on the net.

Well I like to see both to be honest. I like reading the onese in magazines and on the net, they are interesting and let me get an idea for what the bow may be able to accomplish. However I am just as concerned with what "bubba" thinks of a bow also. As well as people like you and Frank, or the local shop if they can be trusted. You will get a more honest opinion out of that than you may get out of a magazine or something that has to worry about sponsers. If we think something sucks, we don't have a problem saying so.

It also gives someone an idea of how something will perform with the kind of set up they intend on using. I mean that's great if a bow will shoot a certain speed or do a certain thing in an IBO configuration shot out of a machine. I however will never see anything close to that and like to get feed back from people more like me or closer to my size. I am very interested when I see comments and advice from women or smaller people like myself. That is why when I get the chance I will post something about a piece of gear or a bow I might try out or purchase. That is why I did the one on my Mighty Might. I may not know every thing about testing a bow, or how all of the phycics work, but I know what works well and feels good to me. And I would think other people my size would like to know this as well.

I would also like to see of the tests done a little better when comparing bows. IBO tests are not very standerdized it seems (is that a word?). Some will test the bow with a 30 inch cam, or module on it. That doesn't always mean it is really 30 inches draw length though does it. They will test them with nothing on the string, who really shoots like this, c'mon. Others will test the bow at 30 inches of draw using a maching to draw it back to a measured distance. With no regards to where the cam is at that distance or whether it's the optimum timing for that set up. I would like to see them test the bow at a specific draw length using what ever cam or module it took to get it there, then make sure it was timed correctly, and list what it took to get it there and what the results were. How hard is that to do? We do it, right. I personally would rather like to see AMO tests myself, they tend to be more accurate. They just don't look as impressive is all.

Paul

No, I don't think you did Paul. Just that my post/s darted around a little bit. As far as testing goes, my point is that technical testing does not hold the same weight once we put a bow in a person's hands..i.e..all the ways a bow can be technically superior are easy to prove in a controlled test (i.e. machines), however other factors (subjective) can & often do play a larger part in ultimately how well an individual shoots a given bow.

Trushot,

Yeah, I took that Recurve alive when it got too close to my blind,
Hope to take a new Merlin compound if it wanders too close.


Sag.

Anyone that did not know the true definition of "overkill," now knows.

Long weekend, bear hunting,(nothing yet, no sightings even!) barbecues, family stuff.....OK, now back to the fray---

Jeff (and everyone for that matter) I respect you views and certainly see what some of you are saying. To an extent I agree that much of the basics can be tested "offhand" by individuals simply trying each bow---but only to an extent as they all need to be done on an apples to apples comparason utilizing exacting techniques for true values to become readily apparent, as opinions alone cannot be deemed a true governing factor. For instance, take a guy who has been shooting recurves all of his life-- 30-something years, then all of a sudden this new fangled piece of equipment comes out and is touted as the greatest thing since the bikini. Does anyone think he will welcome it with open arms, whether a better technology or not??[:'(] I personally witnessed this phenomenon some years ago at the introduction of the compound to the world as virtually thousands of loyal recurve/longbow fans tried their hardest to see the "intruder" away. They almost succeeded even! But here we are, 30-something years later, and the compound is still around.....

Fast forward from that first scenario to today--- now we are in the midst of the search for the next generation "perfect" compound bow. The lines are drawn on three sides---twin, solo, and hybrid as the current contenders. We also now have internet, so everyone can banter back and forth about anything whether true info or not. This stirs the pot even more. What we are seeing is a "suplex" (seems like a good term) of the same thing we saw back then with the recurve shooters who hated the thought of the compound bow. People have once again gotten comfortable with "their" bows, and will "test" them and "conclude" to others on public forums exactly what they want to, irregardless of any true and honest technical findings that may be shown to them to prove otherwise. This is what I see, same as almost 40 years ago......as they say, the Archery industry is much like everything else in life--- very cyclic. I thus must state again my point that true technical tests do not lie, they are not biased, they can be done with machines or with humans doing the testing for the most part, and if all equipment is tested equally with same brace heights, same ATA, same number of string strands, same amount of dampening doo-dads, etc, etc, etc., such results then MAY in fact and PROBABLY will be far different from those "tests" done by our buddy Bubba and friends over a six pack on a Saturday afternoon, who may or may not be just a bit biased by hype, popularity, and loyalty, or swayed by advertising towards one or another of any bows tested, sometimes without even knowing they are doing so. Even if they are not aware, I still contend that it is much like the scenario above irregardless and things are obscured by personal preferences/loyalty.

I have my preferences like anyone else, but I do base my findings for preference on much technical data that I can read and discern, as stated previously. This helps me immensely long before I ever shoot the bow as I will have a good handle on how it will shoot and feel just by looking at the info such as speed and hysteresis values, ATA, brace, Riser geometry, draw force curves, and what kind of eccentrics and limbs are on it, etc---the more I want to know, the further I read. Once a person learns how to "read" this info one can easily determine what bows will fit their "preferences" and what ones that will not.

If some feel this is "overkill", that's OK-- hey, it's America, do your own thing! Test 'em my way, your way, or whatever way. I'll do what I can to help where I can for those who want to listen. But if it makes some feel better, this will be my last post on this particular topic.

Remember--- As long as we're all shooting a bow,(no matter what kind) well I guess that's all that matters, isn't it? Recurve, Twin cam, Solocam, Hybrid cam, Longbow, Crossbow, Footbow, whatever. It's all ARCHERY my friends, and therefore it is all good. It has to be for us to ever survive so our kids and grandkids can enjoy it! Good shooting, Good hunting, Pinwheel 12