Lets talk hunting stabilizers
04-02-2009, 06:45 PM
#31
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: SE Ohio
Posts: 2,531
RE: Lets talk hunting stabilizers
ORIGINAL: bigcountry
It depends where you place them. More towards the middle, I find it can slow an arrow down up to 10fps. More towards the cam, and little to no difference. I have had 2 people argue me and I break out the chrony and now all the sudden their suppressors are not as attractive anymore. I am sure I will get rotten tomatos thrown at me on this one. But I enjoy them.
I know Dave on here did some tests too and found something simular. Placement was key. He used an adjustable STS. The STS works a tad better as its tunable.
But it makes sense why it slows it down. You have a string coming to an abrupt stop. Where is that energy going? Its being wasted. A string will travel 3" or more past where it is at rest if you look at any high speed video. That extra 3" is exerting force on that arrow. Maybe not the whole 3", but the string keeps exerting force on the arrow until it leaves the string. A suppressor can short stop that. I also believe thats why the heavier arrow wastes less energy from a bow.
I think that is why the bowtech suppessors don't have as much an effect. They let string go little past. But stops the high frequency buzz.
This is just my tests. Since the two suppessors are near the cams on teh mathews, I can't see them causing issues.
It depends where you place them. More towards the middle, I find it can slow an arrow down up to 10fps. More towards the cam, and little to no difference. I have had 2 people argue me and I break out the chrony and now all the sudden their suppressors are not as attractive anymore. I am sure I will get rotten tomatos thrown at me on this one. But I enjoy them.
I know Dave on here did some tests too and found something simular. Placement was key. He used an adjustable STS. The STS works a tad better as its tunable.
But it makes sense why it slows it down. You have a string coming to an abrupt stop. Where is that energy going? Its being wasted. A string will travel 3" or more past where it is at rest if you look at any high speed video. That extra 3" is exerting force on that arrow. Maybe not the whole 3", but the string keeps exerting force on the arrow until it leaves the string. A suppressor can short stop that. I also believe thats why the heavier arrow wastes less energy from a bow.
I think that is why the bowtech suppessors don't have as much an effect. They let string go little past. But stops the high frequency buzz.
This is just my tests. Since the two suppessors are near the cams on teh mathews, I can't see them causing issues.
04-02-2009, 06:58 PM
#32
Guest
Posts: n/a
RE: Lets talk hunting stabilizers
ORIGINAL: OHbowhntr
Now it could be me, but if what you are saying is correct, the 82nd and Katera, and Alphamax's will have have better than advertised speeds if people just get rid of those damned String suppressors systems that they all have. I'll use Hoyt, because they seem to always be the closest to their advertised IBO, but are you saying I could get better than the advertised IBO by ridding the bow of the STS that is on it????
ORIGINAL: bigcountry
It depends where you place them. More towards the middle, I find it can slow an arrow down up to 10fps. More towards the cam, and little to no difference. I have had 2 people argue me and I break out the chrony and now all the sudden their suppressors are not as attractive anymore. I am sure I will get rotten tomatos thrown at me on this one. But I enjoy them.
I know Dave on here did some tests too and found something simular. Placement was key. He used an adjustable STS. The STS works a tad better as its tunable.
But it makes sense why it slows it down. You have a string coming to an abrupt stop. Where is that energy going? Its being wasted. A string will travel 3" or more past where it is at rest if you look at any high speed video. That extra 3" is exerting force on that arrow. Maybe not the whole 3", but the string keeps exerting force on the arrow until it leaves the string. A suppressor can short stop that. I also believe thats why the heavier arrow wastes less energy from a bow.
I think that is why the bowtech suppessors don't have as much an effect. They let string go little past. But stops the high frequency buzz.
This is just my tests. Since the two suppessors are near the cams on teh mathews, I can't see them causing issues.
It depends where you place them. More towards the middle, I find it can slow an arrow down up to 10fps. More towards the cam, and little to no difference. I have had 2 people argue me and I break out the chrony and now all the sudden their suppressors are not as attractive anymore. I am sure I will get rotten tomatos thrown at me on this one. But I enjoy them.
I know Dave on here did some tests too and found something simular. Placement was key. He used an adjustable STS. The STS works a tad better as its tunable.
But it makes sense why it slows it down. You have a string coming to an abrupt stop. Where is that energy going? Its being wasted. A string will travel 3" or more past where it is at rest if you look at any high speed video. That extra 3" is exerting force on that arrow. Maybe not the whole 3", but the string keeps exerting force on the arrow until it leaves the string. A suppressor can short stop that. I also believe thats why the heavier arrow wastes less energy from a bow.
I think that is why the bowtech suppessors don't have as much an effect. They let string go little past. But stops the high frequency buzz.
This is just my tests. Since the two suppessors are near the cams on teh mathews, I can't see them causing issues.
I feel the difference is the design of the "stopper" on the bowtechs. I am not familiar with hoyts design. Seems like hoyt lets there be some string movement past static position.
It wasn't a huge deal on my liberty (which is why I bought the meanV), I went from 260 to 254. I have sold that bow.
But what was shocking was it dropped my commander from 275 to lower 260's. Also added back weight and got my bow out of balance. I talked to Dave on here position his STS real low and he got a speed increase.
So started investigating this. And found two other peoples bows dropped in speed also. Theirs were like the liberty, only losing a few fps.
I admit, I need to revisit it. The commander is already dead quiet. I need to experiement with distance from the string, and position. But the now the meanv just sits in my archery box. I tried selling on ebay with no luck and on here.
04-02-2009, 07:04 PM
#33
Guest
Posts: n/a
RE: Lets talk hunting stabilizers
ORIGINAL: TFOX
When I placed an STS string suppressor on my Xtec,I saw a 3 fps increase in speed and I did nothing but place it on the bow as it should be.I don't mess around wiith a bow to gain 3-4 fps,it just happened.
Never had or used a meanv.
When I placed an STS string suppressor on my Xtec,I saw a 3 fps increase in speed and I did nothing but place it on the bow as it should be.I don't mess around wiith a bow to gain 3-4 fps,it just happened.
Never had or used a meanv.
One factor could be tight nock fit that compounders use. Us trad shooters sand down our nocks so loose, you can tap a string and the arrow will fall off. I guess the abrupt stop of a suppressor could offset that nock snap. I don't know, just thinking outloud.
04-02-2009, 07:40 PM
#34
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: HENDERSON KY USA
Posts: 6,634
RE: Lets talk hunting stabilizers
I personally feel the added increase is just a sling shot affect.The string hits the stop with the nock still on the string and it comes to an abrubt stop and the nock is snapped forward.
I personally can't understand how anyone can see huge increases in either direction with one and I really don't concern myself with the speed with it.
I personally can't understand how anyone can see huge increases in either direction with one and I really don't concern myself with the speed with it.
04-02-2009, 07:50 PM
#35
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Henderson, KY
Posts: 1,760
RE: Lets talk hunting stabilizers
I need to try this whole string suprressor thing. I may just have to rob one off of an AM and test the before and after speeds sometime this week. Not trying to prove you wrong BC, it just brings up an interesting thought thats all.
I can actually see the speed increase in theory. I think the determining factor could be the nock style. If the string is exceeding the static position of the bow,and the nock is clipped tight, it may cause it to stay on the string long enough for it to actually loose a little KE, b/c once the string is past static, it is slowing down. It is still in forward motion, but is not being pushed anymore, and inertia is letting the string proceed forward, but it is technically slowing down. If you stopped it at or right after the static position the arrow would not be in contact with the string after the string stopped pushing forward. Just a thought, maybe crazy, but just a thought...
I do a know a guy who had bad results with a string stop. He put a string tamer on his X6 and the results werent great. Before applying it he was tuned well, and thru paper tore very close to perfect(not saying paper is know all or anything, that was just something to go by). after he put it on he was getting bad arrow kick (visible to the eye) and was seeing bad tears. Took it off, and there was no problem. He moved it all around and tried all kinds of tricks to get it to work but nothing did. He may have just had a bad arrow combo for the string stop or something, but it did not tune well with the ST. Just his experience with it. I got one and replaced my Generals factory one the same day and my results were great. No issues what so ever. The X6 just wouldnt do it for some reason that day...
Derek
I can actually see the speed increase in theory. I think the determining factor could be the nock style. If the string is exceeding the static position of the bow,and the nock is clipped tight, it may cause it to stay on the string long enough for it to actually loose a little KE, b/c once the string is past static, it is slowing down. It is still in forward motion, but is not being pushed anymore, and inertia is letting the string proceed forward, but it is technically slowing down. If you stopped it at or right after the static position the arrow would not be in contact with the string after the string stopped pushing forward. Just a thought, maybe crazy, but just a thought...
I do a know a guy who had bad results with a string stop. He put a string tamer on his X6 and the results werent great. Before applying it he was tuned well, and thru paper tore very close to perfect(not saying paper is know all or anything, that was just something to go by). after he put it on he was getting bad arrow kick (visible to the eye) and was seeing bad tears. Took it off, and there was no problem. He moved it all around and tried all kinds of tricks to get it to work but nothing did. He may have just had a bad arrow combo for the string stop or something, but it did not tune well with the ST. Just his experience with it. I got one and replaced my Generals factory one the same day and my results were great. No issues what so ever. The X6 just wouldnt do it for some reason that day...
Derek
04-02-2009, 07:58 PM
#36
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: HENDERSON KY USA
Posts: 6,634
RE: Lets talk hunting stabilizers
ORIGINAL: drockw
I need to try this whole string suprressor thing. I may just have to rob one off of an AM and test the before and after speeds sometime this week. Not trying to prove you wrong BC, it just brings up an interesting thought thats all.
I can actually see the speed increase in theory. I think the determining factor could be the nock style. If the string is exceeding the static position of the bow,and the nock is clipped tight, it may cause it to stay on the string long enough for it to actually loose a little KE, b/c once the string is past static, it is slowing down. It is still in forward motion, but is not being pushed anymore, and inertia is letting the string proceed forward, but it is technically slowing down. If you stopped it at or right after the static position the arrow would not be in contact with the string after the string stopped pushing forward. Just a thought, maybe crazy, but just a thought...
I do a know a guy who had bad results with a string stop. He put a string tamer on his X6 and the results werent great. Before applying it he was tuned well, and thru paper tore very close to perfect(not saying paper is know all or anything, that was just something to go by). after he put it on he was getting bad arrow kick (visible to the eye) and was seeing bad tears. Took it off, and there was no problem. He moved it all around and tried all kinds of tricks to get it to work but nothing did. He may have just had a bad arrow combo for the string stop or something, but it did not tune well with the ST. Just his experience with it. I got one and replaced my Generals factory one the same day and my results were great. No issues what so ever. The X6 just wouldnt do it for some reason that day...
Derek
I need to try this whole string suprressor thing. I may just have to rob one off of an AM and test the before and after speeds sometime this week. Not trying to prove you wrong BC, it just brings up an interesting thought thats all.
I can actually see the speed increase in theory. I think the determining factor could be the nock style. If the string is exceeding the static position of the bow,and the nock is clipped tight, it may cause it to stay on the string long enough for it to actually loose a little KE, b/c once the string is past static, it is slowing down. It is still in forward motion, but is not being pushed anymore, and inertia is letting the string proceed forward, but it is technically slowing down. If you stopped it at or right after the static position the arrow would not be in contact with the string after the string stopped pushing forward. Just a thought, maybe crazy, but just a thought...
I do a know a guy who had bad results with a string stop. He put a string tamer on his X6 and the results werent great. Before applying it he was tuned well, and thru paper tore very close to perfect(not saying paper is know all or anything, that was just something to go by). after he put it on he was getting bad arrow kick (visible to the eye) and was seeing bad tears. Took it off, and there was no problem. He moved it all around and tried all kinds of tricks to get it to work but nothing did. He may have just had a bad arrow combo for the string stop or something, but it did not tune well with the ST. Just his experience with it. I got one and replaced my Generals factory one the same day and my results were great. No issues what so ever. The X6 just wouldnt do it for some reason that day...
Derek
IMO,This is on the money and here is a video showing when the arrow is released from the string.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QYnJufwwFDk
04-03-2009, 04:06 AM
#37
Guest
Posts: n/a
RE: Lets talk hunting stabilizers
ORIGINAL: TFOX
I personally feel the added increase is just a sling shot affect.The string hits the stop with the nock still on the string and it comes to an abrubt stop and the nock is snapped forward.
I personally can't understand how anyone can see huge increases in either direction with one and I really don't concern myself with the speed with it.
I personally feel the added increase is just a sling shot affect.The string hits the stop with the nock still on the string and it comes to an abrubt stop and the nock is snapped forward.
I personally can't understand how anyone can see huge increases in either direction with one and I really don't concern myself with the speed with it.
I am not ate up with speed, but I wouldn't mind knowing.
04-03-2009, 05:44 AM
#38
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Southern MD
Posts: 2,520
RE: Lets talk hunting stabilizers
In light of what was being said here yesterday I checked it out last night. I shot some arrows through the chrono with the string suppressor in place and with it off to the side. Same speeds on all arrows shot. No increase, no decrease. The arrow spines a bit weak for the bow at its' current setting but I don't see where that would make a difference. This particular arrow is very heavyso I am going to try this with a lighter arrow and see what happens also. I am also going to try it on some other bows with different DW's too.
I really didn't expect to see much speed difference so I wasn't really surprised. There was a difference in string noise, less with the suppressor, but, to be real honest, the bow(s) I have them on are pretty quiet anyway.
I really didn't expect to see much speed difference so I wasn't really surprised. There was a difference in string noise, less with the suppressor, but, to be real honest, the bow(s) I have them on are pretty quiet anyway.
04-03-2009, 06:00 AM
#39
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: SE Ohio
Posts: 2,531
RE: Lets talk hunting stabilizers
ORIGINAL: bigcountry
I can't say it happens on all bows or setups. But I do know it happened to me. And I have witness's on this page. I do need to go back and try it again and get to the bottom of it.
I feel the difference is the design of the "stopper" on the bowtechs. I am not familiar with hoyts design. Seems like hoyt lets there be some string movement past static position.
It wasn't a huge deal on my liberty (which is why I bought the meanV), I went from 260 to 254. I have sold that bow.
But what was shocking was it dropped my commander from 275 to lower 260's. Also added back weight and got my bow out of balance. I talked to Dave on here position his STS real low and he got a speed increase.
So started investigating this. And found two other peoples bows dropped in speed also. Theirs were like the liberty, only losing a few fps.
I admit, I need to revisit it. The commander is already dead quiet. I need to experiement with distance from the string, and position. But the now the meanv just sits in my archery box. I tried selling on ebay with no luck and on here.
I can't say it happens on all bows or setups. But I do know it happened to me. And I have witness's on this page. I do need to go back and try it again and get to the bottom of it.
I feel the difference is the design of the "stopper" on the bowtechs. I am not familiar with hoyts design. Seems like hoyt lets there be some string movement past static position.
It wasn't a huge deal on my liberty (which is why I bought the meanV), I went from 260 to 254. I have sold that bow.
But what was shocking was it dropped my commander from 275 to lower 260's. Also added back weight and got my bow out of balance. I talked to Dave on here position his STS real low and he got a speed increase.
So started investigating this. And found two other peoples bows dropped in speed also. Theirs were like the liberty, only losing a few fps.
I admit, I need to revisit it. The commander is already dead quiet. I need to experiement with distance from the string, and position. But the now the meanv just sits in my archery box. I tried selling on ebay with no luck and on here.
04-03-2009, 06:07 AM
#40
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location:
Posts: 7,367
RE: Lets talk hunting stabilizers
ORIGINAL: brucelanthier
In light of what was being said here yesterday I checked it out last night. I shot some arrows through the chrono with the string suppressor in place and with it off to the side. Same speeds on all arrows shot. No increase, no decrease. The arrow spines a bit weak for the bow at its' current setting but I don't see where that would make a difference. This particular arrow is very heavyso I am going to try this with a lighter arrow and see what happens also. I am also going to try it on some other bows with different DW's too.
I really didn't expect to see much speed difference so I wasn't really surprised. There was a difference in string noise, less with the suppressor, but, to be real honest, the bow(s) I have them on are pretty quiet anyway.
In light of what was being said here yesterday I checked it out last night. I shot some arrows through the chrono with the string suppressor in place and with it off to the side. Same speeds on all arrows shot. No increase, no decrease. The arrow spines a bit weak for the bow at its' current setting but I don't see where that would make a difference. This particular arrow is very heavyso I am going to try this with a lighter arrow and see what happens also. I am also going to try it on some other bows with different DW's too.
I really didn't expect to see much speed difference so I wasn't really surprised. There was a difference in string noise, less with the suppressor, but, to be real honest, the bow(s) I have them on are pretty quiet anyway.
Bruce,
That's been my finding on all the bows I have shot through a chrono, and there have been many. I always tell guys that picking up speed won't happen unless they plan on taking off string silencers, etc., and then Not to expect over 2 or 3 fps.
Adding speed is not the reason to use a String Suppressor, and they have never been marketed that way by me. On the other hand I am convinced that any change in speed positive or negative will be very slight 99.9% of the time.
They reduce vibration, noise (without the added weight of silencers), and give a bundled up hunter peace of mind knowing his string will not whack his hunting jacket at the moment of truth. I still firmly believe String Suppressors are the best bang for your $$ in bow accessories regardless of which brand you use.
I've never claimed to have the best, but I do strive to improve and this year came out with the MeanVMaximum model. It's 7075 alloy, and machining tolerances are at the highest level possible. The optional finishes are unequaled by any other suppressor on the market. I was the first to offer camo and still lead in that dept.
Dan