nodog

It's not like that. What you bought was a heavy arrow and when tested for straightness and spine consistancy the range is as great as allowed, whatever that is.

A heavy slower arrow will be more consistant and great if your good at ranging things. If a person wants an arrow to cover more of a range with one pin then a lighter faster arrow is needed and that means more expensive.

I'm all for your attitude about the cost of things however sometimes more expensive does mean crap.

Done it. I know what expensive as well as Walmart arrows are like. Set a bow up with both and you'll find the Walmart arrow dropping way out of the kill zone long before the more expensive arrow.

Walmart doesn't sell rejects although since Sam died I wonder. Hunting section in my local Wally world sucks anymore.

mauser06

so nodog, the higher the arrow price the lower the arrow weight?????? i think that was terribly phrased...or, i hope so....

my arrows aint walmart arrows but they are heavy...im having trouble making sense of your post...i dont know what arrows are on walmart shelves, but i'll almost guarentee that "walmart arrows" are not all real heavy...heck i doubt any of them are rated over 10gpi...my terminator selects are 10.6...so i must got ripped off by paying more for a heavier arrow?!?!

i personally dont shoot walmart arrows...

i actually do shoot CX terminator XP Selects..which are pretty reasonably priced...but, actually have some of the best specs on the market..and are some of the heavier carbons on the market..

for that price, i doubt they are fletched great..i doubt the inserts are glued great...and i'd definently love to see them thrown on a scale and weighed out..and love to see the spine consistancy as well...

SwampCollie

Well... carbon express and easton tell me this...

They do the same thing with Bass Pro and Cabelas lines of arrows. Not always... but frequently.

Lets take easton (or specifically Beman) for example... did you know that easton really only makes a couple of different types of arrow shaft in the carbon hunting line???

Now, nobody sets out to make 'rejects', but they do happen, and because of the way carbon arrows are made (rolled from a single sheet like the paper stick of a lollipop), they are very difficult to control in the spine, thickness and straightness departments. So lets say that Beman sets out to make ICS Hunter Elites. They are the highest price, and most consistant at +/- .001 in straightness. Next you have your gold standard ICS Hunter at +/- .003. Followed by your Bowhunter, which is .006 in straightness. What they do with the ones that fall outside of those parameters is beyond me. But take your arrows like the Carbon Raiders they sell at "Richards" Sporting Goods... they are just ICS Hunter Elites that got REJECTED.

That doesn't mean that they are not safe... not at all.... it simply means that from a quality control standpoint, they didn't make the grade. What you are paying for when you pay for high end arrows is for someone to sit down and test each one with lasers and benders and holy water and whatever else to ensure that they are as closely matched as possible (and our own bigcountry will tell you that sometimes these QC folks come to work with hangovers... or perhaps still drunk.... as the holy water doesn't always take). Easton X10 Pro Tours are matched +/- .001 for THE WHOLE DOZEN... meaning if you were to lay them end to end... the whole lot would be that straight.... these are olympic competition quality arrows and you don't find them in wal-mart.

All that these arrow companies are doing is finding a way to make their money back on their 'rejects'.... rather than just throwing them out, they are selling them at a reduced price.

That is how business works... no different with jewelry, gun stocks, funiture etc etc... anytime you have a material or product that you simply will not know how the quality is until its done.... you get various lines (or grading if you will) of product.

SwampCollie

I don't know about him, but yes that isEXACTLY what I am saying. See my post above.



That I highly doubt... at least as far as the firearms are concerned... I don't know about tools or appliances.

I do fully suspect that you will often find lower quality grades of wood (or should I say basic grades)... I don't think that Remington is going to do wal-mart any favors when it comes to product... it will be to standard, that is for sure... but don't expect anything above and beyond... of course you knew that when you walked into wal-mart in the first place.

You are going to have to use some business common sense here..... but the reason behind this lies in simple economics and business practices. Wal-Mart is what my professors in college used to call 'The 800 Pound Gorrila'... you'll remember the proverb that the 800# Gorilla can sit wherever he likes.

Wal-Mart's buyers will go to Remington or whatever company and say..... 'I'll take 5 million units of X product at Y price or I won't take a damn one.' Remington has the job of first finding out if it is even feasable... and then to deliever said product. No MAJOR (and I mean that by volume)company is going to say no to Wal-mart when they want to buy THAT MUCH product...

So, Remington or any company for that matter, has basically three choices...

1) it can reject wal-marts proposal outright and basically say no to a potentially HUGE HUGE profit (wal-mart isn't exactly going under in these tough economic times you know),this isn't really an option, because to ignore the cash cow that wal-mart often is... you wouldn't be in business or have a job at said business very long if you turned away potential new customers

2) it can offer wal-mart an inferior or 'rejected' model at a much reduced price (often under a differnet brand name as to not undercut its own QC standards... (ie Dewalt and Black and Decker, or ICS Elites and ICS Bowhunters), understand that it is of course in line with some standards of quality control... but they are much much looser... and all firearms have to meet a LOT of standards before they are sold to consumers or...

3) it can design a new, lower price point, model specifcally for box stores.... such as the 770.... or 710.... or the Stevens Model 200... Stoegers model 2000... etc etc.... and open itself up to a totally new, lower margin but higher volume sector of the market.

That doesn't mean that its inferior from a function standpoint... but it is made from 'inferior' materials and to much less rigorous standards than mainline or high end goods are. You cannot really expect to be getting all the quality of a custom shop 700 when you buy a 770 for $394 and change can you? Remington would go bust! No company (not even wal-mart) expects their suppliers to sell to them at a loss... thats just not how business works.

PS: And for what its worth... yes... I work in the outdoors, archery and firearms industry for a living... and we do pretty well I think.

superstockbigblock

SwampCollie you are correct, and that is how walmart does business, they name the price because they buy a lot. I work in the food industry, and that is no different, either sell the product to them, or lose the shelf space, or lose out on making it to a competitor who will gladly have the business.

nodog

last ones I bought were close to 12, there were a carbon composite ie heavier. They had lighter ones as well, can't remember the brand. Arrows I shoot are 9 or under. That adds up in drop and speed. If your good at ranging, no problem.

Most come full length and set to go so your shooting the arrow at it's heaviest. People who buy ready made arrows typically buy them because they don't make there own and cutting them down requires a saw so they're going to be shooting the full boat.

When I had one a few years ago I commented to my daughter that my bow could shoot any arrow well and grabed the Walmart arrow, shot from where I shoot and watched the arrow impact below the kill zone.

I like the arrows, they were well made and had an excellent camo finish to them, shot well and I could get one 24/7/365 in a place I'd likely be often.

Sure you can get lighter arrows cheaper but the lighter arrow needs to be much more consistant in spine and weight to group well, the heavier arrow does not. The requirements for the lighter arrow almost always means your going to pay more.

The Walmart arrow was a little heavier than an FMJ. Shot some last year, nice arrow but they were heavy. Too heavy for me. Brother likes the Beaman MFX. That's a great arrow but it's on the heavy side as well.

This conversation has given me something to think about, the way I'm shooting this year at game I should switch to a heavier one, can't seem to stop shooting high. For some reason I'm more invisible to game this year than ever, they come right up to me. Had a doe the other day 10 yards away looking right at me, eye level for the hunter she was sure was much farther away. She had no idea how close she was. Not used to these close shots. Missed a nice buck that day that did the same thing. Went right over his back. A Walmart arrow would've been perfect. Like being hit with a slug.

nodog

The question is why were they rejected, I say it isn't because of structural quality, it's because of strick spine and weight requirements which I don't believe is all that good reguardless of what the manufacturer has said they are. I've never heard of a walmart arrow exploding, but I've heard of plenty others. Had a GT XT do it on me about 4-5 years ago and when I contacted the retailer I was told they'd had more complaints of that shaft doing that than any other for that past year.

nick_bleuer76

Try at 60 yards....

JoshKeller

what pound draw weight is your bow? With those thunderstorms being only spined to 50 pounds, you may find that those muzzys fly completely different.

Gundeck

Yes, what he is saying is if you can't drive a Ferrari, you shouldn't be on the road. Guess he doesn't drive, because I am sure he can't afford those arrows AND a Ferrari.