BowTech_Shooter

Sag, You do know I was just giving you a little ribbin in my jest to you right?...You know as well as I do we all give credit where credit is due...It's supposed to be that way...I'm sure Kevin runs a great internet sales site and I'm in no way trying to take anything away from anyone including Kevin for running a internet sales site. I've also seen others give Kevin kudo's on doing a fantastic job with them and for them...That being said I would also like to give him the thumbs up for obviously running a good internet sales business since he's gotten nothing but good reviews that I've seen...It's good for business when possitive things are told on the net... Negatives are a bad thing...Duh!

Sag, Also...I think your question about odering the G3.2 was a loaded question...LOL...You know you can't order the bow from me but I can hook you up with the dealer nearest to Bedford and I will make sure there's one there for you... <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle> Make sure you allow ample time for your order to be filled...Grin...


Kevin, I in no way tried to offend you as it seems I have. I was just trying to see your biased towards manufacturers that do allow internet sales versus those that don't. I wasn't trying to pry, and my intended point was to see if you only deal with the same manfacturers in both of your businesses or if you deal with the different ones for both.
Again you're right is really is none of my business unless I were one of your shop or internet sales site customers and who knows I may stop by your shop or place a online order with you someday. I certainly hope I'm welcome to your shop?...

I didn't take any offense to the &quot;siding with BowTech&quot; statement I was just clarfiying that I've had these feelings before I was ever involved with BowTech and even before they were around, thats all...

I also agree with you. I for sure was asking you questions back then (search engines don't lie) and I'll probably have technical questions for you in the future too. I hope you don't mind... I hold a high technical respect for you, Field 14, Len, JeffB, Sag, Matt/PA, Frank and many others... If I didn't mention your name don't be offended (too many to mention)...I learn every chance I get and I learn something on message boards every day I'm on them...

Next segment for this dicussion (I call it a dicussion rather than an argument because so far we've been able to keep it civil) Thanks guys...Let's keep up the good work...

Let's pretend that all and I mean all manufacturers (BowTech, Merlin, Hoyt, Mathews, etc. etc. were to just plain cut out the middle man and sell &quot;internet only&quot; from their own web sites.

What do they gain by having dealers doing it and they themselves don't?
Just think of the profit margins all these manufacturers would be making then...They wouldn't have to worry about cut throat, back stabbing dealers to try to take care of. They would save thousands of dollars just by not having to send printed material to dealers. They would just have to ship a bow from point A to point B and have no dealers to &quot;mess with&quot; if you will. I know this route would never be sought but I'm just trying to convey all options here...They wouldn't have to worry about bows getting shipped into another dealers protected territory since there would be no dealers(all online now)...Wouldn't that suck for all of us?....

End of playing make believe...

I had a few thoughts run through my mind while at work last night about what takes place on these boards...

I took some change out of my pocket for the coffee machine(yuck)LOL..
and I looked at my quarter (New Hampshire) weird coincidence huh Kevin, and as I looked at the quarter I realized that it's a lot like our discussions/arguments we have on these boards. It has a head side and a tail side, both are very different, and I compare them to our opinions. We all have our own opinions and they are just that, opinions. No facts to back them up and I really don't believe you could ever factually prove an opinion. I may be wrong, what's your opinions on this?...LOL...

I'm very certain this is why our discussions often times seem to end up in arguments... We're all a little hard headed and don't seem to like to see things the other guys way, always...

However, I think that when we state technical or even common knowledge known facts we can't argue with this. I'm talking about things of certainty like a string length or a limb composition etc., etc. these are factual things that can't be debated...

O.K., O.K. I'm done rambling now...LOL...
<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>

smyth

As stated earlier, when your left-handed it gets a lot harder to get your hooks on a bow. Most of dealers within 50 miles of me do not stock left-handed equipment or if they have one, it it for draw lenghts that I cannot adjust to. Therefore, one must read everything, including this site, to try and gather as much info as possible. So far, I've been lucky. Last bow was a Q2XL, but that was a no-brainer in the &quot;gambling&quot; category. When a bow gets the reviews from all over that this one did, I didn't sweat it. And of course, it is a really great bow. Would I buy a new model of something without seeing lots of reviews? Nope! I think thats an invitation to disaster.

FAllen

Pinwheel 12

Pat-

Great post, and I agree on alot of your points there also. I for one have no problem with you personally and sorry if it seemed that way, and you are always welcome in my shop or home, or to buy from our website should you so choose. You can even bring your Bowtech up and I'll shoot with you! <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

These &quot;intense&quot; debates that we have from time to time only solidify our passions for the sport, and even tho we don't always agree on certain issues, as long as we are not namecalling then I see it simply as a debate with differences of opinion. Of course, personal business is something each one of us should choose as to whether or not we want it out for all to see or not, and for the most part we are all in agreement there.

As for the &quot;next segment&quot; in theoretical discussion and the possibility of some manufacturers themselves opening up a website, well, my feeling is it is up to each manufacturer to decide whether or not they want to spend the money to staff an office, setup terminals, pickers, packers, and add that to a shipping dept that half the time is balls to the walls already if you are a larger company. Most of the time it is much more cost effective for the manufacturer to let the dealers take the brunt of this, as they will then make more of their designated profit on the additional sales anyway, ( and further networking through many dealers instead of just themselves) without the hoopla. If they setup physical dealers, then they have to give them their sales package and brochures anyway, and if those dealers were to setup internet trade, there is no more involved for anyone except to order more bows!<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle> The manufacturers who already allow internet trade are simply cashing in on their dealers' extra sales. That's it in a nutshell from my perspective.

We all have our opinions on different subjects, and yes I agree, unless it is something that can be proven by physical or mathematical properties, then we are all simply stating our opinions. Who to believe? That is up to each individual to decide. <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle> <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle> Good shooting, Pinwheel 12

Sagittarius

Pat,

Yes, I know you were just kidding.
No problem.
Same for me ordering the Bowtech from you, all in fun.
Actually, too bad you can't sell Bowtechs yourself.
I'd rather order one from you than anyone else.


Sag.

pdq 5oh

Pat, I guess I would. I bought the P38 DC, and ordered a Pat DC. I doubt I'd order a bow that I wasn't at least familiar with. I don't think I'd like ordering by internet, as opposed to a pro shop. I like the people at the shop I frequent, and like doing business with them. I appreciate the smile and friendly faces that greet me when I walk in. An email doesn't do as much for me. I do buy all the pieces and set the bows up myself. I feel as you do. The net has a place, it's just not the only place. I also feel there is something to be said for &quot;loyalty&quot;. If a shop gives me good, friendly service, I spend my money there. They've earned it!

Phil.
&quot;Could you guys be quiet, my dad's trying to shoot.&quot;<img src=icon_smile_shock.gif border=0 align=middle>

BowTech_Shooter

Kevin, I don't think you completely understood my little &quot;land of make believe&quot; shop above.
I had said that if the bow companies didn't have any dealers in the field and all sales were done via internet. They wouldn't have to add staff but probably reduce a couple. I don't see that would have to add any pickers/packers because they would be shipping the same number of bows, only they would go straight to the customer instead of a middle man that's also making profit. Anyway, I'm not trying to start an argument over a silly little thought...


Sag, Well then if you'd rather buy a bow from me...Hmmmm... I've got a like new RH 60-70 lb. 2002 G 3.2 (less than 1000 shots) I'll sell you. I'll make you the best deal money can buy. This deal is for you Sag and only you...Double MSRP @ $1498.00...But wait there's more, for absolutely no additional change I'll throw in a pair 40-50 lb. limbs. It's only because I like you twice as much as the others. This offer is good to you Sag only until I sell it to someone else for half the cost...LOL....No offense to anyone...It's a joke...And the bow is not really for sale.... <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>

It is truly a nice target bow and holds like a rock...Sag, you better try to find me at Bedofrd again my friend...I'll be looking for you...Well, kind of...I don't have a clue as to what you look like or I don't even know your real first name?

Pinwheel 12

Pat--

Totally understood about you making &quot;the land of make believe&quot; joke, but some manufacturers have actually taken that route in the past believe it or not, and came to the same conclusions that I mentioned in my above post. That's the only thing I was pointing out.

No biggie! <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle> Pinwheel 12

BowTech_Shooter

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Pat--

Totally understood about you making &quot;the land of make believe&quot; joke, but some manufacturers have actually taken that route in the past believe it or not, and came to the same conclusions that I mentioned in my above post. That's the only thing I was pointing out.

No biggie! <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle> Pinwheel 12


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You're right I can't believe any manufacturers would try such a thing...That's just plain silly....

Oh well, live and learn I guess...

Edited by - BowTech_Shooter on 11/23/2002 10:39:47

walks with a gimp

I've got an idea, if a bow company allows direct internet sales at suggested retail prices say, $749.95 for the bow of your dreams. That is a very good profit for that company compaired to selling to a dealer for much less. It seems to me that if a company makes very good profits like that on direct internet sales, they could lower the price to the dealers, who would sell the same bow for the same retail price and make more on their sales also. An experienced home tuner can set his bow up very well while there are those that need or want the help of the pro shop to select accessories and with installation. With a pro shop you could try before you buy for the same price and service as a direct internet sale. A direct internet sale would not have the direct pro shop support as a local pro shop sale and would have to deal direct with the manufacture. I think it would be benefical to the pro shop and the manufacture and we all would have the ability to buy any brand of bow on the market. I have never owned several brands of bows simply because they weren't available in my area. In the end the consumer would have more choices in more remote areas of the country and the mfgs. and pro shops could make more profits.