Sagittarius

Pat,

Why can't you just start selling them online ?
That way, you can have mine ready when I arrive in Bedford. :^)
Heck, everyone could pick their's up at Bedford, lol.
Don't even have to shoot it first!


Sag.

PABowhntr

Ya know, since we are on the subject.....

...why not have one or two online websites that could sell some of these pro shop "only" bows for specified areas of the country? Make sure the prices are the same as at the pro shops so that the little guy doesn't get stabbed in the back and make the two online shops filled with qualified and reputable people.

Hmmmm....

BowTech_Shooter

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
Ya know, since we are on the subject.....

...why not have one or two online websites that could sell some of these pro shop &quot;only&quot; bows for specified areas of the country? Make sure the prices are the same as at the pro shops so that the little guy doesn't get stabbed in the back and make the two online shops filled with qualified and reputable people.

Hmmmm....

<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>


I don't think it would work Frank...In my opinion the nearest dealer to these would be internet sites would be getting screwed.

Let's say you were to start or allow two online shops to sell. Let's say you have a person that lives just a half a mile or heck let's say the person buying the bow is neighbors to a dealer or protected dealer. Would it be at all fair for the dealer that has established themselves as a protected dealer (meaning he has fulfilled all the requirements) loose a sale to a authorized internet dealer let's say 2000 miles away...

I know if I were a dealer that worked my butt off to earn the right to be a protected dealer, it would really pizz me off if my next door neihbor bought one online from person they don't even know in the middle of Montana or Colorado or where ever....

I don't beleive too many full time &quot;legitimate pro shops&quot; (not basement bandits or guys working out of there homes) would want to sell online either...

I just don't there's a way to make it fair for all...

I guess if there are no kind of protected territories with xxx brand bow than it's not a big deal...Sell as you wish...

walks with a gimp

I'd pay the suggested retail price online because in Ne. we don't have many dealers and they are far between. I'd save money not having to travel to the dealer plus risk my life on the road driving.

BowTech_Shooter

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
Pat,

Why can't you just start selling them online ?
That way, you can have mine ready when I arrive in Bedford. :^)
Heck, everyone could pick their's up at Bedford, lol.
Don't even have to shoot it first!


Sag.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>

Sag, If you or anyone else wants to order a bow and pick it up in Bedford let me know...

We have a dealer real close to Bedford that I'm sure would love the business and I'm quite certain he would even deliver them to you and whoever else...

Let me know plenty ahead of time what your specs are and that G 3.2 will be waiting for you...LOL...<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

Pinwheel 12

IMHO more and more &quot;legitimate shops&quot; are starting to realize the benefits of online sales, and more of them nowadays as opposed to two or three years ago have a website.

Why would any dealer NOT want another 20-30% (or more!) sales percentage coming in over what you do from the physical shop? I know my family loves to spend my extra income from it!<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

I feel it is just a matter of time before all manufacturers allow some sort of internet trade, regardless of the grumblings we see currently from some of them. The intial surge will admittedly be a PITA to many or us reputable shop owners because of the basement bandits who will basically give things away for unrealistic margins, but soon they will also realize that they cannot make a decent living by doing such, and either quit or get with the program, and it will stabilize. Alot of people will continue to buy from their local dealer and rightfully so, but as mentioned by one of the posters above in areas where there are no dealers for miles, internet sales is a great commodity.

I know my Pinwheel Products customers find little problem with ordering via the net, it's secure, it's fast, and it's done from the comfort of your home. I have established quite a few friendships and a solid customer base via the net, and feel that without this outlet and these boards I never would have met some of them. I for one can now afford a little extra nowadays due to my website, and am supremely glad I started the business. I feel it should be up to each individual as to how they want to purchase products, not dictated to them simply because the manufacturers do not yet know how to handle the dillemma they'll face with their protected-territory dealerships, or due to those that have heard the grumblings about how internet sales are &quot;no good&quot; blah, blah, blah, tho no-one seems to know how or why these grumblings really started? With the right type of open-minded discussion and looking towards the future and what it will bring, this &quot;protected territory&quot; issue and other issues pertaining to internet sales could be discussed intellegently, hammered out, and ultimately open up yet another avenue for people to purchase products. If this avenue allows more people to purchase and accounts for more total overall sales, then the end result is that our sport is growing due to it.

And GROWTH of our sport is definately a good thing. <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle> Just my own thoughts, Pinwheel 12



Edited by - Pinwheel 12 on 11/21/2002 14:05:35

BowTech_Shooter

Kevin,

My intent is not to start an argument here so don't read it that way please.

I can certainly see internet sales being a great thing in some cases and I'm not knocking it all together. It certainly has some benefits.

I know of a case of a 2001 BK2 sold over the net to a consumer in AZ. that had major problems with the bow and BowTech ended up refunding him the full amount back. Who benefits from those cases? I'd say only the internet dealer did. That's only one occurance can you imagine what it would be like if they allowed internet sales?

I don't believe that protected territories are in place by any company to try to dictate, but rather help a commited dealer sell his product in his locale. Simple logic.

I've even seen where you said you thought protection would be a good thing where you were referring to Merlin on the Bowsite boards you had said,
&quot;The 2001 program will include selected dealers throughout the USA, but where and how many is still being ironed out. Hopefully, by 2002, there will be regional dealers in every corner of the USA, with protected territories. This way people can get to see the bows.&quot;

Case and point, I understand that you're the &quot;Recommended contact for Internet sales in the USA&quot; but wouldn't it tick you off if your next door neighbor emailed Skip Pecor or Larry Wise and bought a bow from them instead of coming into your 300 Archery Shop?

Maybe not depending on how this &quot;Recommended contact for Internet sales in the USA&quot; works for you. I'm not real sure what all that intails and I know it's none of my business. But to me it sounds like a possible dictatorship of sorts since you're the only one? I don't know...

Let's also understand that most basement bandits aren't generally in business to make a living. It's generally a past time for them to make a little extra cash from friends and not have any overhead to cut into what they make. Any shop that works out of their house don't have many extra bills other than the normal monthly bills.

I'm sure you can relate to having to pay for the overhead of running business.
Heck emloyee wages, benefits and insurances really cut into a legit shops profit where a basement/home shop has none of the above extra costs.

I'm glad to hear your Pinwheel Products site is working out for you. Like I said I can see many benefits to internet sales but not in all cases...

Thanks for listening...
<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

Pinwheel 12

Pat--

I'm also not trying to start an arguement here, but rather giving my thoughts about how I see how internet sales are becoming a valuable resource for both the dealer and consumer. And as stated, the dealer can benefit greatly from this outlet if certain issues are addressed.

First,I am in no way stating that a protected territory should in fact be taken away from any dealer! Reputable dealers work hard for their money! In most cases internet sales are simply an alternative way for people to buy, and most still purchase a majority of their products from their local shop.

As far as returns, that will happen regardless of whether there is internet trade or not. Just the volume of sales will be higher, is all. If a product is defective, it's defective, doesn't matter whether you buy it from me over the counter, or thru the net, it's simply a case of &quot;spin the wheel&quot; and which one comes out of the box. Warranty cost to the manufacturer is only heightened by the additional cost of shipment back to the customer after repair,($13) but let's not forget that the customer also had to pay that same $13 to get it back to the factory for that repair. To me, this issue is a wash. The dealer makes out only on the sale itself, he loses time and effort by being the middleman and having to send the item each way. Sometimes the return shipping even comes out of his pocket instead of the customers'.

If my next door neighbor bought from Larry or Skip instead of me, then there would be a reason for that, wouldn't there! <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle> I have no issues with any of the other Merlin dealers as we all have our territories. If they open up internet sales, (and some have, no &quot;dictatorship&quot then so be it. I merely pride myself on my experience with the bows, and the fact that Merlin feels the same and puts enough faith in me to name me their &quot;factory-recommended&quot; internet contact. If people cannot read between the lines and what Merlin are trying to say with that statement, that is of no consequence to me. I sell many bows each year, and cannot worry about those that I do not. Again, most people are going to buy from their local dealers like Larry or Skip anyway. That's fine.

I know you side with Bowtechs' policies on this issue and that is OK, that is your choice. My feelings are genuinely biased also, I like my Merlins and like to make money!<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle> As stated before this business is my life and livlihood, not just a hobby, and it's in my best interest to cater to those that will in turn do their best to help ME. Any avenue of sales-approach to the public that in turn will promote growth of our sport which in turn will help my business(es), is where I want to be. The manufacturers all make their substantial profits, there is no reason why we dealers shouldn't be able to also, especially when the manufactuers get overzealous and overflood an area with dealers, and lots of time well within any &quot;protected territory&quot; one dealer may have been promised! I have seen this scenario time and again with many different dealers in my area, from more than one manufacturer also. &quot;Protected territories&quot; aren't as &quot;protected&quot; as they once were, IMHO.

With everything else in the world now being sold via the internet, and billions of dollars in profits being made by those who use it as a dealer outlet, doesn't it seem very strange to be having this discussion at all? Has anyone ever used E-bay? Did you feel bad for doing so? That's what I thought... I can give credit to those manufacturers who feel they are doing the right thing by not allowing internet sales, but that only holds so much water and tells me that some manufacturers in the Archery industry simply haven't given it that much thought towards a viable (and mutually profitable!) solution. Eventually this avenue must be discussed intellegently by those manufactuers, and conclusions and decisions made towards their overall retail future.

Just how I see it. Good shooting! <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle> Pinwheel 12

Rangeball

What if x% of all internet sales within the brick and mortar territory went to the protected dealer, automatically?

That'd get my interest in a hurry...

Pinwheel 12

Hmmm, interesting concept, Rangeball! Incentive is always a great tool.

Restrictions is what hampers sales. You'd never be able to find out who sold what on a consistent basis. Too tough. We need to find a way to do it without restrictions. But you may have something with the incentive part...

See, thought towards viable solutions are being developed already! <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle> <img src=icon_smile_tongue.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle> Pinwheel 12







Edited by - Pinwheel 12 on 11/21/2002 15:56:21