Bigpapascout

no that is false out of time means out of sync

most dual cams work independantly from one another because the harness is connected to the opposite limb of the bow when one harness is stretched longer than another this will cause one of thee cams to come out of time with the other which will require the stretched harness to be twisted back to its original length in order for the cams to be in time with each other

although the binary cams workstogether because the harnesses are connected to the cams instead of the limbs it is still a dual cam systemthis does not mean the harnesses and strings cannot stretch when one becomes longer this is going to throw the timing off which will require adjustments to be made in order to get thecams back in proper alignment with each other

what most people fail to realize is that a out of time cam has nothing to do with the configuration of the cams but has everything to do with the length of the strings and harnesses when one is even a fraction off it will throw the cams out of whack

I hope this explains what I am trying to point out about cam timing.

Len in Maryland

Timing and synchronization, as used in discussions about bows, are similar but different. Timing is the 'clocking' of any cam for optimization of efficiency/power. Synchronization is the adjustment of two cams to identical oroptimumtiming characteristics.

Now here is the glitch. Depending on the location of the nocking point, it is possible to have 'synchronized' but 'out of time' cams, or vice versa. The full draw issue is what I have found to be a critical element when discussing this subject. The desirable element is to get the 'package' working at its best.

Now keep in mind that a two cambow withthe split yoke system can throw a monkey wrench into efforts to achieve a timed and synchronized bow. That's a whole subject unto itself and the reason a lot of tournament archers bring their equipment to me.

Let me also say that this whole subject does not make any two cam bow something to avoid. New string materials and the advent of the binary cam system have made them much more desirable to a demanding customer base for many reasons.
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Mike from Texas

Len, since we're talking about cam timing and such, I recently bought an '03 Patriot Dually (used) supposedly less than 50 shots through it and honestly from the looks of everything he's probably telling the truth. Anyway, when I first got it, the cams were definitely out of synch as there was definitely 2 "bumps" and felt like it had 2 valleys. Anyway, I took it to a local pro shop and even though I can't stand the guy's attitude, he's a hell of a bow mechanic. I asked him to tune it for me and get it paper tuned. Wel, I went and picked it up Tuesday and e told me that he couldn't get it to bullet hole when the cams were perfectly synchronized by his darw force mapper so he had to tune it with the limbs? I.E. the bottom limb is backed out about 3/4 of a turn more than the top one. I brought it home and it shot great.

Then here's where I messed up. I bought the bow with 29" modules on it but I shoot a 30" draw. When I got home, I swapped the modules out. Big mistake. My nock point and peep sight and timing were all out of whack again. I reset the nock point and peep sight and started working on the cams by twisting the cables. I got them to where they "feel" right and go out and begin shooting and such. After about 50 shots, I can feel the double bump coming back into the cams, so I go back in and have to let 3 twists out of the top to get ot to feel right again, but now my draw length feels too long. Did I do something wrong and does adding or removing twists in the cables affect draw length? I guess I'm gonna have to go drop another $50 to get it retuned now. [&o]One of WWAG's bowmender presses is looking beter & better all the time. I'm tired of this Bowmaster.

Bigpapascout

by adding twists to the harness you are in effect making the draw length longer
adding twists to the string will in effect make the draw shorter

Mike from Texas

I tok twists out of the cable going to the top cam and it now feels longer. Is it just me possibly?

Bigpapascout

this is just a theroy because I dont have the bow in front of me but what i think is happening is that one of the cams are spongy because one of the cams is not contacting the wall when the other cam is on the wall thus making the draw feel longer
does that make any sence to you.

sometimes these things can be complicated unless you are actually working on the bow
hopefully that makes some sence[8D]

RobVos

First, Bigpapascout is correct about timing the bow at full draw, and that the binary cams can indeed be out of time. They are connected together and what the "slaved" means is that when one stops rotating, so will the other, where as a traditional 2 cam bow one will hit the stop and the other will continue to rotate until it hits it's stop, causing eratic nock travel at the critical end of the draw as the string continues to let out of only one cam. The binarys cams can be out of time, but the ill nock travel effects are minimized due to both cams stopping and one not being able to rotate independantly. It is a good idea and the 07's are much better than the previous versions as they load the axles closer to the center and do not exhibit the "lean" that previous ones do.

Now, on the 03 dually, there are 2 things that can cause the double hump you are feeling. One is out of time at full draw, the other is that the early Bowtechs needed to have a slight amount of induced "lean" by manipulating the yokes so that the cable falls into the groove on the cam smoothly -- if not, it can hit the side first then "jump" into the groove causing the double bump. Also, make sure you shoot the cables in. Ensure that the cables are not hitting the side of the track while you draw and adjust yokes 1/2 twist at a time until it fallin smoothly. Get it timed at full draw with YOU drawing the bow. The way you pressure the grip can have an affect on the timing. If the draw is not exactly as you want after this, adjust with twists in the string.

One other thing, when changing modules, ensure they are really seated when you tighten the screws -- there is enought play in the fit to tighten them and make them slightly off. This may have been what happened to you initially.