arkansasbowhunter

what I am still perplexed by is that given I only draw 60 lbs, going to a heavier arrow will only jump up my ke by 3 (i.e going from 314 to 398). I guess, how heavy is heavy enough. Is improving my ke by 3 worth buying more arrows or should I look into buying a newer bow that will shoot a heavier arrow faster. I am limited to 27.5 inch and 60 lbs draw?? what is the optimum KE for what I shoot? thanks for the help.

Arthur P

Not me, gibblet. Sir Isaac Newton does.

Yup. Save the light ones for 3D,the only thing they're good for,andget somereal hunting weightarrows for hunting. Only I think NOW is the time. If I were King, I'd make a royal decree that people had to use arrows that weigh a minimum of 400 grains for hunting deer size game.

Paul L Mohr

You can add weight to those arrows as well. They make tubes for it, or you can use weed eater line. I always weight my arrows down. For one it adds weight, adds FOC in most cases and I can match the arrow weights very closely.

I shoot a fairly light set up, 26 inches of draw with around 55-60 lbs of draw weight. I do shoot a fairly fast bow though. However I shoot very heavy arrows for my set up that slows the bow down considerably. I shoot 430-450 grn arrows (depends on how they are fletched). I use 2213's with uninocks and I add weight to them by using a length of a 2016 shaft inside them. I found that a 2016 will fit perfectly inside a 2213. So I just trim them until I get the exact weight I want and then assemble the arrows. This why I like aluminum arrows, they are much easier to work with for me.

You are right in saying that it doesn't matter what weight arrow you use the KE will be pretty close to the same. However like we said before with the heavier arrow you have more momentum. KE is only one small part of the equation that effects how well your arrow will penitrate. A very simple analogy is the ping ball/golf ball thing. Have someone throw a ping ball and a golf ball at you as hard as they can throw it. Which would you rather get hit by? The golf ball is going to hurt much more because it is heavier and has more momentum and less resistance to stopping.

There are also some pretty heavy carbon arrows on the market if you look around. And normally cammo arrows weigh a bit more, not always though you need to check when you buy them.

You will hear guys say the heavy arrow thing is bunch of crap and they can shoot very light arrows with good results. Well good for them! These are guys with longer draw weights drawing more weight on fairly effecient bows. They have an overkill of energy and momentum and pretty much any arrow they pick will have enough punch to go thru a deer at normal distances. Many of these guys are overbowed as well, shoot too long of a draw and most likely much more draw weight than is comfortable or needed. Many guys I know could shoot 10 lbs less draw weight and still be effective, especially with the newer bows that are out. However when you are on the line with energy like say 45-60 ft/lbs I wouldn't play the speed game, I would pick a suffeciently heavy arrow to get the job done and limit range or learn to judge yardarge better. I limit myself to 25 yards and use a rangefinder ahead of time to range a peremiter around my stand. I don't have to guess at yardarge, when deer walks inside that circle I know I can take it. The down side is I can't spot and stalk worth a darn because my bow is slow is and I pretty much blow at judging distance beyond 20 yards. Trade offs, trade offs, life sucks sometimes.

Paul

Arthur P

Paul, it's kinda funny you talk about 45-60 ft lbs being on the low side. And about how your bow is slow and that won't let you do any good with spot and stalk hunting. It shows how far up the speed and KE trail we've come in the past few years. 45-60 ft lbs used to be above average to monstrous in the pre-compound days. Back then, someone would have to shoot 75-80, maybe even 90 pounds of draw weight to get 60 ft lbs of energy. [:-]

I've always been a spot and stalker. Still am. I only get about 35 ft lbs with my stickbows, shooting 550 gn arrows @ 170 fps at 45 lbs draw weight length. (Thank goodness for having a long draw.)Then I use 2-blade cut on contact broadheads. 5" feathers. WOOD arrows at that. Same as I used 40 years ago, and I get the same excellent results I got 40 years ago. You just have to be extra sneaky to get in close.

If I used something other than wood, it'd be heavier aluminum or carbon/fiberglass composite arrows. I can't stand fiddling around with adding weight to carbons and trying to keep from messing up their balance and flight characteristics. It can be done, but I've got better things to do with my time. Like shooting.

I agree wholeheartedly about how thoselight arrow guys are putting out enough KE to blow a toilet plunger through an Abrams tank, and are able to successfully use light arrows. Even mechanicals with large cutting diameters on light arrows. Problem is, they recommend light arrows to everybody because "I've never had a problem with them", even whenmany ofhunters are not getting enough KE to get reliable penetration with that kind of setup.

When you're on the light side with KE, you simply have to make smarter choices with arrow and broadhead selection and exercise a good bit of restraint, not taking anything but close (20-25 yards max), high percentage kill shots.

The lower your KE, the more you have to rely on momentum, so you use proportionally heavier arrows. The lower you are on KE, theless blade surface area you can push through an animal, so you choose broadheads that have cutting tips instead of punch through tips, then smaller cutting diameters, fewer blades, or both. It's really a simple matter.

arkansasbowhunter, I responded to Paul, but was also referring to your post. It's not the few extra ft lbs of KE that will increase your penetration. It's the extra momentum that the heavier arrows will bring with them. I'm not talking about doing like me and shooting logs. Just go up to 400 grains, set your sight pin at 27 yards. You'll have the KE. You'll have the momentum. And you'll still be able to use one pin to 30 yards. Unless you hit heavy bone or use an overly large broadhead, that arrow should bury into the ground on the other side of the deer, every time.

Paul L Mohr

I know where you are coming from Arthur and often think the same thing. I haven't been in it as long you though. I know people that have bows that are 10-15 years old and have to draw 75 lbs and 3 inches more draw length to get any where near my "light" set up. Then they go look at newer bows and still want to draw all that poundage? I just ask them why? They could get the same or better performance out of a newer bow with much less draw weight and a draw length that fits them. And it would be so much more enjoyable to shoot. They are so hung up on the speed hype.

And I think I'm kind of like you. Sometimes I will go in a shop or be on the net and see or hear someone telling a smaller archer like a women or kid (or me) to use a really light arrow to up thier speed for hunting. Then tell them how great mechanicals are and easy to tune. I tell you when I hear it my eye starts twitching!

I don't claim to know a lot about traditional archery, I started with a compound and like it. I would like to get one to play with though. I have a small kids one that sort of fits me. I just can't get the hang of shooting with my fingers. Any way, when you are shooting a bow, even a compound with ballistics simular to a long bow I think it would be best to look at what works best with that sort of set up. And I haven't seen a whole lot of trad guys shooting 300 grn carbon arrows. I'm guessingn the reason is they don't work worth a darn. I'm sure if they worked people would be using them to get the extra speed.

I proved the momentum theory with the little recurve I bought for my girlfriends kids. It has maybe 20 lbs of draw weight at 25 inches, if that. it came with some cheap little light arrows. They would not even stick in my bag target at 10 yards. So I tried my Girlfriends 1816 Jazz arrows. Sometimes they would stick, sometimes they wouldn't . I grabbed one my 400+ grn arrows and they punch right thru everytime, even at 20 yards (when I can hit it).

Paul

arkansasbowhunter

comments well taken. the best thing is to finish out this set of arrows and maybe look at the gold tip 400's for next year which would put me closer to the 400 gr wt than adding wt tubes, etc.

MilDotMaster

I have 10 new 5575 GoldTip XT Hunters in camo cut to 29.5 inches for sale. 6 are brand new and the other four were used for target practice when I first got my 06 bow a few weeks ago. They are396-400 grains total weight with 100 grain field points installed and fletched with 4 inch VaneTech vanes.I found very fast that they were way to soft for my draw length and bow with my speed cams installed. It kills me to see them there in my shop going to waste and I could use the money from them to purchase some Easton Super Slims. If your interested email me or post here.