E collars under $200?
02-22-2002, 04:39 PM
#1
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Fairfield CA USA
Posts: 142
E collars under $200?
Alright, I'm not a fan of the e-collars with 99.9% of dogs. With all of our other hunting dogs have found lots of love, attention, trust, and consistent discipline (Move to your side of the pillow, darn dog) is more than enough. I have two yellow labs that are great and I swear one of them knows what I'm thinking. However my Dad just inherited a black lab mix (as a pup) and this dog is hard headed.
Its now about 1.5 years and this dog is thickheaded pain. She jumps all over, even after multiple knees to the chest. I admit the biggest problem is that my Dad is getting a little old and too feeble to chase a dog around the yard with a rolled up newspaper. My big lab has worked the black lab mix over a few times, but that dumb dog always bugs him, she's just not very sharp. Now against my best wishes my Dad wants this dog to hunt, even though I have two labs that are quite good and his Golden is OK (its a golden what can I say).
After begging my Dad to get after that dog, and realizing that he can't catch her if she doesn't want to be caught, I borrowed a InnoTek shock collar from one of my hunting buddies. Low and behold the dog quickly figured out that she can't jump on people anymore. However the buddy needed the collar back so I'm on the market for a new collar. I just can't see the need for buying some super expensive collar because I really don't plan on seeing it used on any other dog but this one. Is there a good/reliable collar that can reach 200 yards for under $200?
I know, I know there need to be other training methods as well (your preaching to the choir on that one) but it could save that dogs life in the long run. Translation if that dog jumps on my 7 month old daughter one more time we won't need the collar at all. If the dog lived with me it would be different as I'm still agile enough,and strict/loving enough that I could probably train the dog, but right now thats not going to happen. The dog does have a pretty good nose and she can run for days but it doesn't do any good if she's a mile from the nearest hunter.
Edited by - MATTITO on 02/22/2002 17:42:59
Its now about 1.5 years and this dog is thickheaded pain. She jumps all over, even after multiple knees to the chest. I admit the biggest problem is that my Dad is getting a little old and too feeble to chase a dog around the yard with a rolled up newspaper. My big lab has worked the black lab mix over a few times, but that dumb dog always bugs him, she's just not very sharp. Now against my best wishes my Dad wants this dog to hunt, even though I have two labs that are quite good and his Golden is OK (its a golden what can I say).
After begging my Dad to get after that dog, and realizing that he can't catch her if she doesn't want to be caught, I borrowed a InnoTek shock collar from one of my hunting buddies. Low and behold the dog quickly figured out that she can't jump on people anymore. However the buddy needed the collar back so I'm on the market for a new collar. I just can't see the need for buying some super expensive collar because I really don't plan on seeing it used on any other dog but this one. Is there a good/reliable collar that can reach 200 yards for under $200?
I know, I know there need to be other training methods as well (your preaching to the choir on that one) but it could save that dogs life in the long run. Translation if that dog jumps on my 7 month old daughter one more time we won't need the collar at all. If the dog lived with me it would be different as I'm still agile enough,and strict/loving enough that I could probably train the dog, but right now thats not going to happen. The dog does have a pretty good nose and she can run for days but it doesn't do any good if she's a mile from the nearest hunter.
Edited by - MATTITO on 02/22/2002 17:42:59
02-22-2002, 08:36 PM
#2
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Kansas City Area
Posts: 13
RE: E collars under $200?
No offense Mattito, but if your hunting with a mixed breed, believe that hitting a dog with a newspaper, and believe that 99.9% of dogs can be trained without an e-collar...you really shouldn't be using one.
It takes a lot of expirence and training to properly use a collar. Even the pros occasionally ruin a dog with an e-collar. The collar can't train a dog to do anything....it just reinforces a command. Besides, it sounds like the dog is already collar wise with regard to jumping on people.
If the dog is jumping on people without the collar on....then it hasn't been trained at all. It just knows to obey when that thing is strapped around it's neck.
I know it's not what you wanted to hear, but unless that dog is going to live with an e-collar around it's neck, you need to get the help of a good pro to teach you some e-collar basics.
Just my 2 cents.
It takes a lot of expirence and training to properly use a collar. Even the pros occasionally ruin a dog with an e-collar. The collar can't train a dog to do anything....it just reinforces a command. Besides, it sounds like the dog is already collar wise with regard to jumping on people.
If the dog is jumping on people without the collar on....then it hasn't been trained at all. It just knows to obey when that thing is strapped around it's neck.
I know it's not what you wanted to hear, but unless that dog is going to live with an e-collar around it's neck, you need to get the help of a good pro to teach you some e-collar basics.
Just my 2 cents.
02-26-2002, 05:12 PM
#3
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Fairfield CA USA
Posts: 142
RE: E collars under $200?
Darn, I just got back to my own post due to work. Hmmmm lets see... A. I actually hunt with yellow labs and can almost always make them mind with a whistle or a "YUP" if they aren't already obeying a hand signal. I don't need to use the e-collar personally as this isn't my dog, and I think that if I were available to spend more time with the dog it would have already been taken care of.
However my father who is way too nice actually got suckered into to taking a lost "black lab" pup which actually ended up being a mix (we found out as it matured into a smaller than normal lab body). This man is in his 60's with a bad back that doesn't allow him to be rough and tumble or truly disciplinary with anybody or anything. My point was that the only time the dog has ever even started to listen about not jumping on people was after a day with a shock collar. This is after months of verbal training, attempted leash training, and the necessary knees to the chest as the dog tried to knock you down. As my Dad has trained 3 goldens and 1 actual black lab to be pretty good hunters in the past (without e-collar) he never wanted to resort to the collar. However enough was enough so we introduced the dog to the collar and were NOT trying to drastically shock the dog in any manner as we really don't want to use the instrument. It had a positive effect on the dogs actions so I was looking for a similar collar that wasn't going to break the bank, which the dog could wear for a longer period of time as not to associate the stimulation with the collar.
Now Fred, part number 2. Yes, I prefer the mellow labs that hunt hard but listen and look for commands. Which is why I wouldn't use a collar in 99.9% of training situations. If you like wild ass dogs and want to have to constantly keep them attached to a collar than go for it. Just don't plan on coming near my yellows without trouble. I prefer a hunting situation where the dog can do his/her job under the slightest control of hand signals and verbal commands. I think it takes more skill as a team than just shocking them or giving them electronic tones everytime they aren't going in the desired direction. I can think of nothing as beautiful than watching a lab working a flooded cornfield with a slight hand gesture for guidance and watching the full retrieve.
So no Fred, I didn't take it personally but you should have read the first post more closely, but just in case hopefully it is more clear now. I guess maybe it wasn't clear because I stated I didn't want it to jump on my daughter now when actually it would basically run her over. The jumping part on adults was taken care of in the one day with the e-collar. Sorry for the confusion. But I guess everybody thinks they are a dog expert since a huge population of North America has dogs.
Just my two cents.
However my father who is way too nice actually got suckered into to taking a lost "black lab" pup which actually ended up being a mix (we found out as it matured into a smaller than normal lab body). This man is in his 60's with a bad back that doesn't allow him to be rough and tumble or truly disciplinary with anybody or anything. My point was that the only time the dog has ever even started to listen about not jumping on people was after a day with a shock collar. This is after months of verbal training, attempted leash training, and the necessary knees to the chest as the dog tried to knock you down. As my Dad has trained 3 goldens and 1 actual black lab to be pretty good hunters in the past (without e-collar) he never wanted to resort to the collar. However enough was enough so we introduced the dog to the collar and were NOT trying to drastically shock the dog in any manner as we really don't want to use the instrument. It had a positive effect on the dogs actions so I was looking for a similar collar that wasn't going to break the bank, which the dog could wear for a longer period of time as not to associate the stimulation with the collar.
Now Fred, part number 2. Yes, I prefer the mellow labs that hunt hard but listen and look for commands. Which is why I wouldn't use a collar in 99.9% of training situations. If you like wild ass dogs and want to have to constantly keep them attached to a collar than go for it. Just don't plan on coming near my yellows without trouble. I prefer a hunting situation where the dog can do his/her job under the slightest control of hand signals and verbal commands. I think it takes more skill as a team than just shocking them or giving them electronic tones everytime they aren't going in the desired direction. I can think of nothing as beautiful than watching a lab working a flooded cornfield with a slight hand gesture for guidance and watching the full retrieve.
So no Fred, I didn't take it personally but you should have read the first post more closely, but just in case hopefully it is more clear now. I guess maybe it wasn't clear because I stated I didn't want it to jump on my daughter now when actually it would basically run her over. The jumping part on adults was taken care of in the one day with the e-collar. Sorry for the confusion. But I guess everybody thinks they are a dog expert since a huge population of North America has dogs.
Just my two cents.
02-28-2002, 07:15 AM
#4
Fork Horn
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Rochester, MN USA
Posts: 107
RE: E collars under $200?
Fred, you are right on. And Mattito, I think you need to educate yourself a little more on e-collars before you make such generalized statements.
First of all, there is an introduction process with collars, this isn't something you just strap on one day and think its your salvation. If you want to screw up an already pretty good dog like you say you have, that is a good way to do it.
Secondly. You are correct in that dogs can become collar-wise, but that is prevented as well, by not strapping that bad boy on the second before you start training and take it off immediately afterward.
READ, READ, and then READ some more. Then after educating yourself, go talk to someone experienced to toss around your thoughts and ideas. THEN start looking at collars. If and when you get to that point, collarclinic.com has some good reconditioned collars that may be in your price range.
It's not about thinking you are a "dog expert", it's about being educated and not ruining dogs as a result of ignorance.
Just my two cents.
Chad
First of all, there is an introduction process with collars, this isn't something you just strap on one day and think its your salvation. If you want to screw up an already pretty good dog like you say you have, that is a good way to do it.
Secondly. You are correct in that dogs can become collar-wise, but that is prevented as well, by not strapping that bad boy on the second before you start training and take it off immediately afterward.
READ, READ, and then READ some more. Then after educating yourself, go talk to someone experienced to toss around your thoughts and ideas. THEN start looking at collars. If and when you get to that point, collarclinic.com has some good reconditioned collars that may be in your price range.
It's not about thinking you are a "dog expert", it's about being educated and not ruining dogs as a result of ignorance.
Just my two cents.
Chad
03-05-2002, 11:30 AM
#6
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Fairfield CA USA
Posts: 142
RE: E collars under $200?
Fred that tone was for you not the dog. By the way the current talk at my parents hosue was either euthenasia for the dog or my pleads for at least trying a shock collar. She is that bad. They've had retrievers for over 30 years and I'd never ever heard them even whisper something that horrible. Have a good one and thanks for the information on a specific collar it was very helpful.
