Fred, you are right on. And Mattito, I think you need to educate yourself a little more on e-collars before you make such generalized statements.

First of all, there is an introduction process with collars, this isn't something you just strap on one day and think its your salvation. If you want to screw up an already pretty good dog like you say you have, that is a good way to do it.

Secondly. You are correct in that dogs can become collar-wise, but that is prevented as well, by not strapping that bad boy on the second before you start training and take it off immediately afterward.

READ, READ, and then READ some more. Then after educating yourself, go talk to someone experienced to toss around your thoughts and ideas. THEN start looking at collars. If and when you get to that point, collarclinic.com has some good reconditioned collars that may be in your price range.

It's not about thinking you are a "dog expert", it's about being educated and not ruining dogs as a result of ignorance.

Just my two cents.

Chad