obby1

I currently have a lab, and I am looking at getting a pointer to work with it. I hunt pheasants in Iowa. I have limited experience with pointers, I have only hunted with vizsla (sp). What is the best pointer for Iowa Pheasant hunting?

RUFNECK

birttany is my dog of choice exellent pointer vey easy to train

tailcrackin

I would agree, My opinion is etheir Brittany, German Shorthair, or even vizla, but i'd want it from gun dog kennel. Here is afriend of minesweb site, he's got some very nice dogs, www.DellingersDogs.com Tell him that jonesy sent you , he's next to Gainesville georgia. Very honest, and very biddable dogs. Jonesy

tailcrackin

One more thing, make sure the dog is broke, or steady, if you get a pointing dog, its a bad cross to hunt with flushing breed, If not broke, pointing dog will fall to peices. Thanks Jonesy

underdog

Do you get a commission for these dogs you attempt to sell, crackin'?

obbie, Over 50 years I've owned and trained about all kinds of pointers except Brits. I hunt tough country and I've just seen too many Brits give up in the sand burrs and cactus, so I've just never acquired one.

I've hunted behind some Brits in Kansas and Nebraska that did OK on pheasants, but I don't think you'd go wrong with a shorthair. There is a lot of variance in the ranges within the breed, so do your homework and get a pup or dog that fits you. DON'T mail order a pup because some pro recommends it.

Find some folks near you and ask to watch the parents work. Most apples don't fall too far from the tree and the pups will likely work similar. UNLESS, some knucklehead has bred a big runnin dog with a bootlicker thinkin' he will get a medium-range dog. That doesn't happen. Some dogs will take after one parent and some after the other. That won't likely happen unless you buy from a backyard breeder.

I have a couple of shorthairs that are hunted primarily on wild runnin' bobs, but they have no trouble adapting to pheasants. One is a big medium-range male and the other is about as big running bitch as you'll see for a shorthair. For Iowa, I'd get a medium-range dog.

I love the looks of Vizlas and have thought about getting one. My experience with them is very limited, but I've judged a couple and although they were beautiful physical specimens I wouldn't have hauled either one home if you'd given them to me.

I've hunted behind some guide Vizlas on pheasant in Kansas that did a good job hunting small coverts and were absolutely great on retrieving and cripples.

But, like Crackin said, if you get a Vizla, make sure it comes from hunting lines. The pool of good hunting Vizlas is much smaller than GSP's.

One of my dog's dam is out of Cajun's Kennels in Iowa and she and her mama are good dogs. I'll put her up against most EP's and setters on wild runnin bobs anyday.

I'm not a pro and have never used one although I know a couple that sorta wrote the books on dog training. But I've been around a lot of dogs in a half-century of bird hunting and my advice to the inexperienced is that training dogs isn't nearly as complicated as some make it out to be.

Get a good-blooded dog that fits your needs, teach it to whoa and you have a meat dog. And really, that's all most hunters expect.

tailcrackin

Whew, I wish I made a commision. I'd have money coming in from coast to coast, well now lets really get into opinions. For the average weekend hunter, getting any breed as a pup, will be the best choice. And actually hes got the best all around breed already at the house. I have been a pro for 15 yrs, I do retrievers, for hunting and competition, I do bird dogs all breeds for hunting, walking comp, horseback comp. so I personally get to see all different flavors. Now he does not have to call any of my connections, that is his choice, and whoever he goes to might say on the phone that they have the dog, he gets there and nothing suits his fancy, thats his choice. I think it's like buying a car. Now since I started this site, most of you have had disbelief, in myself and what I say. Thats fine, its your opinion. But what I don't understand is why everything that I have suggested to do to fix the problem, no one has come back and said " Jonesy that did not work " and there will be times that will happen. Until then you dont offer to many suggestions, because the handlers, then the dogs get confused. So I try to keep everything black and white, for both, as you have read, I explain what and why, then ask if they have questions or if they understand. This is what I believe, I am honest with the handlers, and honest with the dogs. I don't believe in Quick Training, I don't care if it takes a week or month, until I read the dog and it accepts the teaching it is not goin on any further, sobefore the dog leaves it and the owner will understand what and why. This is fair to both. I think dogs all the time, this is a way to help, I don't care if I get a client off of here, what I want is you to go away thinking, "wow, that makes sense." If you have read in my other posts, I always say Patience!! It pays off in long run. So what we should be doin, instead of testing me, is trying to once again help someone out with the questions. How about we ask what kinda of terrain, or what he would or is thinking of what he'd like to have, not ourselves. Then we'll work together off of that. Like I said earlier, have you ever hunted both styles together, flushing and pointing?? You better expect some mistakes to happen, if both are young dogs. What about springer spaniel, Jeff Bryson in Lapeer Mich. has an awsome dog, retrieves does whatever he's huntin. Grouse pheas quail. German shorts are nice also, I just broke one for a grouse dog, for Les Sandridge, an ins. man in Stanton Virginia. Bought as pup, I believe the dog learnsthrough the time spent by the owner. It can go on and on. Please do not feel that I am being smart in any way. The biggest part of Jonesy's gun dogs, is finding dogs for people, and fixing all the man made errors. Thanx, I will not lead you a stray, Jonesy

AlaskaMagnum

www.vdd-gna.org


nuff said.

underdog

Jonsey, I don't disagree with much of what you post about training dogs. But the guy asks what time it is and now you're telling us all how to build a clock?

I like to see folks that ask for advice on the net to get good advice, too and I am a little confused that your first response in which you admonish the guy to get a broke dog. (Some might think this is a pro's bias.) Then in your big fat paragraph on dog training and your dressing down of anyone who might disagree with you, you recommend a getting a pup. Confusing. I don't think it matters-- just up to the owner as to whether he is willing to invest the time in a pup or wants a dog that can hunt out of the box.

So far as folks testin' you. I haven't. But unsolicited advice is going to rub folks the wrong way, especially when you give it to folks that don't need it.

I didn't ask about terrain, because I know what Iowa pheasant hunting is like. And I didn't recommend shorthairs because they are MY favorite breed. They aren't.

I'm not gettin' down on you and I think you're generally a good resource for folks here. I don't give much dog training advice on boards because so many experts always want to trash your technique and substitute theirs.If you're gonna post on a board like this, you might as well get used to it.

obby, The point Jonsey made of hunting a pointer with a flusher is a good one. I wouldn't do it. I have done it once against my better judgement and it confirmed my thoughts on the matter. I've heard of folks that do it, but it can lead to bad habits in a pointer, especially a young one that isn't steady.

One thing about owning a pointer vs a flusher for upland game is that you can always hunt bigger country with them. You can rein it a big runnin' dog , but you can't put wheels on one that wasn't born with them.

tailcrackin

You can't build a clock without parts, you can't do a dog without foundation, you said that you've been here for 50 yrs. I learnt that in first 5, then learn more and more each dog. Well if he gets a pup of any breed, if he'll spend lots of time with it, dog will learn were to be in the timber where to be in field. If he gets a broke dog, the flushing in front will not be as bad, as you stated in your 6th paragraph. So this boils down to amount of money to spend. I didn't ask about the terrain either, I was bor and raised in central illinois, born and raised on pheasants, in illinois, iowa, ohio, and North dakota. So this can give him time to think about what he is doing. As far as being an expert, far from, but I have been fortunate enough to learn and spend time with alot of the greatest, this is where you learn. About seven years ago I got to train with one of the most greatest hands with all breeds that i feel that there is, he is what taught me honesty with the dog. Maurice Lindley of LindleysKennelis an awsome individual. So if the foundation IS built, the dog in the long run will turn out to be a much better dog. It is amazing how many dogs are screwed up because of ignorance. The most classic is taking a bird dog to a dove shoot for gun association. I don't know.My opinion is that, Ibelieve, that foundation is the better start of a nice companion in the field. So everybody else can do it there way , thats fine, but its the foundation that should have been taught, that you go back on to fix the problems. In which is where I have tried to help other friends with their problems with the dogs. So thats cool, no biggie, life is good. Jonesy

pjhunts

I would definitley say German Shorthairs. They work close and listen well and have top notch noses. They normally have a natural ability to nail down running birds as well. They also make wonderful pets/companions. Brittanies are way to timid for my taste.