You can't build a clock without parts, you can't do a dog without foundation, you said that you've been here for 50 yrs. I learnt that in first 5, then learn more and more each dog. Well if he gets a pup of any breed, if he'll spend lots of time with it, dog will learn were to be in the timber where to be in field. If he gets a broke dog, the flushing in front will not be as bad, as you stated in your 6th paragraph. So this boils down to amount of money to spend. I didn't ask about the terrain either, I was bor and raised in central illinois, born and raised on pheasants, in illinois, iowa, ohio, and North dakota. So this can give him time to think about what he is doing. As far as being an expert, far from, but I have been fortunate enough to learn and spend time with alot of the greatest, this is where you learn. About seven years ago I got to train with one of the most greatest hands with all breeds that i feel that there is, he is what taught me honesty with the dog. Maurice Lindley of LindleysKennelis an awsome individual. So if the foundation IS built, the dog in the long run will turn out to be a much better dog. It is amazing how many dogs are screwed up because of ignorance. The most classic is taking a bird dog to a dove shoot for gun association. I don't know.My opinion is that, Ibelieve, that foundation is the better start of a nice companion in the field. So everybody else can do it there way , thats fine, but its the foundation that should have been taught, that you go back on to fix the problems. In which is where I have tried to help other friends with their problems with the dogs. So thats cool, no biggie, life is good. Jonesy