Thoughts on Sunday hunting bans
#51
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 11
Likes: 0
From:
Hey Guys,
Thanks for the vote of support.
Just remember, WORSHIP IS AN ESSENTIAL ASPECT OF OUR FULL RELATIONSHIP WITH THE LORD. I know too many guys who say they find the woods to be a great place of interaction with God, but hey...when I am looking for that BIG buck or the Tom with a 12 inch beard, I know my thoughts are not always fully focused on the Lord.
Just remember to keep everythind perspective.
This is a fun topic, because there are so many layers to the onion...
Thanks for the vote of support.
Just remember, WORSHIP IS AN ESSENTIAL ASPECT OF OUR FULL RELATIONSHIP WITH THE LORD. I know too many guys who say they find the woods to be a great place of interaction with God, but hey...when I am looking for that BIG buck or the Tom with a 12 inch beard, I know my thoughts are not always fully focused on the Lord.
Just remember to keep everythind perspective. This is a fun topic, because there are so many layers to the onion...
#52
i just want to say that there are alot of excellent oppinions on this topic and nomatter which way it goes or what happens with the law the bottom line is this, our sport will never be taken from us as long as there is the passion for it that has been displayed on this post alone. even though there are only a small handfull of us responding to eachother on this specific post there are thousands that feel the same way and have the same different views on the subject at hand but nomatter what is said we are all sportsmen and we all share the love of the outdoors and we have all given credit to the lord for the chance to enjoy what he has sacrified for us to enjoy our sport and the outdoors and that is the most important thing. i just think it is an awesome thing when you can agree to dissagree. especially when we are all on the same side of the fence. sportsmen are some of the best people and kindest people on the planet to one another and that bsays alot considering we are all carrying weapons lol but seriouslly i hope everyone the best in the 2005 season and cant wait to hear and share more views and experiences with all of you
#53
[quote]ORIGINAL: VA HEAD HUNTER
so rem basically you are saying that because of christianity that that religion alone should dictate for others? so basically you believe in forcing religious beliefs on others also? or your saying that christianity is the only religion that should be followed.
well Bro..it's like this..THIS country was founded upon CHRISTIAN values & principles,was it not?
When GW gets sworn in in a few days, WHICH BOOK will he be placing his hand upon? Remember that FREEDOM of religion, doesn't give ANYONE the "right" to try to change what those values are. NOONE. as for forcing religion..that's a joke. you can't "force" anyone to believe anything. Christianity IS the only religion that THIS country should be following..like it or not. You wanna live in a Muslim environment, move to the MidEast...Hindus to India...IF you WANT that environment( and religion DOES dictate environment). You don't wanna go to church...fine... you don't wanna follow the teachings of the Bible as best you can, again fine.. just remember that those decisions have a cost,too, and it's usually paid byfuture generations....
so rem basically you are saying that because of christianity that that religion alone should dictate for others? so basically you believe in forcing religious beliefs on others also? or your saying that christianity is the only religion that should be followed.
well Bro..it's like this..THIS country was founded upon CHRISTIAN values & principles,was it not?
When GW gets sworn in in a few days, WHICH BOOK will he be placing his hand upon? Remember that FREEDOM of religion, doesn't give ANYONE the "right" to try to change what those values are. NOONE. as for forcing religion..that's a joke. you can't "force" anyone to believe anything. Christianity IS the only religion that THIS country should be following..like it or not. You wanna live in a Muslim environment, move to the MidEast...Hindus to India...IF you WANT that environment( and religion DOES dictate environment). You don't wanna go to church...fine... you don't wanna follow the teachings of the Bible as best you can, again fine.. just remember that those decisions have a cost,too, and it's usually paid byfuture generations....
#54
[quote]ORIGINAL: silentassassin
..and that comment is used out of context..AGAIN... I challenge you to show me ANYWHERE in the constitution those EXACT words. it says the State shall not establish it's own religion. Get your facts right,Bro
No. Last I heard there was supposed to have a seperation of church and state and we are supposed to have religous freedom.
#55
ORIGINAL: VA HEAD HUNTER
i just want to say that there are alot of excellent oppinions on this topic and nomatter which way it goes or what happens with the law the bottom line is this, our sport will never be taken from us as long as there is the passion for it that has been displayed on this post alone. even though there are only a small handfull of us responding to eachother on this specific post there are thousands that feel the same way and have the same different views on the subject at hand but nomatter what is said we are all sportsmen and we all share the love of the outdoors and we have all given credit to the lord for the chance to enjoy what he has sacrified for us to enjoy our sport and the outdoors and that is the most important thing. i just think it is an awesome thing when you can agree to dissagree. especially when we are all on the same side of the fence. sportsmen are some of the best people and kindest people on the planet to one another and that bsays alot considering we are all carrying weapons lol but seriouslly i hope everyone the best in the 2005 season and cant wait to hear and share more views and experiences with all of you
i just want to say that there are alot of excellent oppinions on this topic and nomatter which way it goes or what happens with the law the bottom line is this, our sport will never be taken from us as long as there is the passion for it that has been displayed on this post alone. even though there are only a small handfull of us responding to eachother on this specific post there are thousands that feel the same way and have the same different views on the subject at hand but nomatter what is said we are all sportsmen and we all share the love of the outdoors and we have all given credit to the lord for the chance to enjoy what he has sacrified for us to enjoy our sport and the outdoors and that is the most important thing. i just think it is an awesome thing when you can agree to dissagree. especially when we are all on the same side of the fence. sportsmen are some of the best people and kindest people on the planet to one another and that bsays alot considering we are all carrying weapons lol but seriouslly i hope everyone the best in the 2005 season and cant wait to hear and share more views and experiences with all of you
#56
ORIGINAL: 02bhntn
I'd like you to think about this for a minute. Sunday hunting, that is. Is there an issue here? The first question is whether this should be a debate at all. No doubt, the current illegality of Sunday hunting is the result of the "Blue Laws" of Pilgrim times. Hunting was then illegal because it was another individual pursuit not to be followed on the Puritan day of worship. It was also illegal to till one's fields, open one's store for business or drink alcoholic beverages. The only acceptable behaviors for Sunday were forms of communion with a Christian God. All other behaviors were deemed illegal.
Time passes and states change. Of course, now we allow individual liberties to a significantly greater degree than the Pilgrims did back then. Now we engage in business, enjoy our recreation and may even relax our religious devotion without violation of the law. That is, all of us may pursue any activity legal on any other day of the week except hunting.
On closer inspection, it isn't even very clear why the law barring hunting on Sunday remains on the books except that we removed all the other Blue Laws piecemeal (usually as a result of business pressure) and have now logically gotten around to this one. I say logically because there can be no basis in civil liberty for its continuance. And furthermore, there is no question that hunting, as a recreational pastime, is as reasonable as the Sunday drive or boating or hiking or cutting wood or any of the other individual pursuits of men and women everywhere.
Unless...the old Blue Law is now being used as a means of personal discrimination by the few as it was once used as a vehicle for religious restriction by the many. And there appears to be ample evidence for this conjecture.
I'll say here that this should not be a question for the proponents or the adversaries of hunting per se. The law should not be used to force the views of one ideological group upon another. Not in these United States, at least. Here, the law is formulated for the good of the society. Law are meant to enforce and model by both content and process reasonable behavior for the population as a whole. In this country, liberty and the pursuit of happiness ( when these don't unduly threaten the safety of the community) are the reasonable behaviors we base our society upon.
Putting aside the question of discriminatory application of the law for a bit, is hunting a reasonable liberty and pursuit of the population? Does hunting unduly threaten the safety of the individual or endanger the fabric of our community? Let's briefly examine these points.
What is a reasonable liberty? By our own standards of behavior, driving a vehicle is reasonable. It is also likely to be the most dangerous behavior we engage in for both ourselves and others around us. But we consider this reasonable nonetheless and not unduly threatening. So too, power boating. Despite the very high risk of accidental drowning and injury, and the obvious risks of sharing finite water space with swimmers (who enjoy similar risks) and sailors, boating is accepted as reasonable. Hiking is also reasonable. Hikers erode trails, damage wild plants and harass wildlife. Unintentionally or not the nature of hiking is intrusion into non-human dominated spaces. Hiking also results in unwanted contact between strangers in remote places and (accidental?) trespass but hiking too is deemed a reasonable individual recreation. The list goes on. The cutting of wood is permitted. It too may encompass real risks for the person and the environment along with the air and noise pollution it creates, nonetheless it too is reasonable.
All of the outdoor activities noted above are reasonable and all are legal to pursue on Sunday but not hunting. Is hunting riskier to the participant or the non-participant than these? No. The insurance actuarial tables are clear on the greater risks of injury and death from driving, swimming, boating, hiking, chain sawing, bicycling, etc. All of these are greater risks to the individual and the community than hunting. Therefore, we allow reasonable people to make reasonable efforts to pursue these interests at their liberty on Sunday.
Just to underscore the point made above, we also allow citizens of the Commonwealth to also consume alcohol and then consider it reasonable for them to use good judgment while under the influence of a known mind altering drug in their further choices of behavior. We even allow them to alter their minds with alcohol and THEN drive and partake in the various dangerous and destructive activities listed above! This is certainly a notable recognition of the value personal liberty has for us.
By way of comparison of their behavior and/or threat to the community, hunters are certainly less numerous than hikers and by necessity they utilize out of the way locales. Hunting is so much more difficult than hiking or biking that it is often ruined just by the presence of others regardless of their willingness to share the natural resources or not. Hunters are certainly quieter than sawyers and pollute less than any engine driven vehicle. They are responsible for the operation of significantly less dangerous machinery than a car or a boat (according to the insurance companies) and often have no cause to operate their bow or firearm at all in the course of a day afield. Think about it, how many people just sit in their car or boat without ever starting it up and going somewhere?
In addition, hunters must have demonstrated, by test or experience, both a knowledge of the law and their responsibilities under it to be licensed for their activity. Only automobile operators have a similar responsibility. Sawyers, bikers, riders, boaters, sailors and such have no such requirement to demonstrate their awareness of the dangers or impact of their pastimes in shared public places.
It is also important to recognize and honor that hunters pay the state a license fee directly to support the environment of their pursuit. These are the same environmental resource that others do not pay a cent to enjoy as well. Do hikers pay? Boaters? Campers? Swimmers? I could go on.
Now that we have a broader view of the what is reasonable and realistic behavior in public places, let's expand upon an earlier point. Times change. In these times, it is not uncommon for a working person trying to care for their family to work two jobs or six days a week or a weekend job. This is certainly a laudable though often necessary sacrifice and I think you would agree that such individuals should be respected for their efforts and for their responsibility to their family and community. Then isn't it unreasonable to deny this person the opportunity to pursue their interests on the one day they are likely to have any time off for themselves? Do we really expect everyone to be so well off that they can and should take a weekday or a Saturday off from work if they want to go hunting? Is it our intent nowadays to support a law against Sunday hunting that means that responsible hard working individuals should just accept loosing out because they have put their family first? It sure looks like the "haves" are unwilling to share what is in the public trust with the "have nots".
It is time to join the 21st Century. The "Blue Laws" of the 19th Century no longer apply to today's society. Today's society is a 7 day work week with little time spent pursuing ones chosen recreational activities. The continued balking at the issue of Sunday hunting is tantamount to "Recreational Discrimination" There are many arguments that arise in the presence of this issue. All of which hold no weight when really scrutinized. It seems that the biggest debate is the religious belief that Sunday is a day of worship. Isn't there a thing nowadays supported by the constitution called the separation of Church and State. It seems that the continued use of this argument is unconstitutional.
I implore you to vote in the affirmative on these issues when they come to vote. I also implore you to do as much research on the subject as possible. If it works in 43 other states it can't be as bad as others would have you believe.
I'd like you to think about this for a minute. Sunday hunting, that is. Is there an issue here? The first question is whether this should be a debate at all. No doubt, the current illegality of Sunday hunting is the result of the "Blue Laws" of Pilgrim times. Hunting was then illegal because it was another individual pursuit not to be followed on the Puritan day of worship. It was also illegal to till one's fields, open one's store for business or drink alcoholic beverages. The only acceptable behaviors for Sunday were forms of communion with a Christian God. All other behaviors were deemed illegal.
Time passes and states change. Of course, now we allow individual liberties to a significantly greater degree than the Pilgrims did back then. Now we engage in business, enjoy our recreation and may even relax our religious devotion without violation of the law. That is, all of us may pursue any activity legal on any other day of the week except hunting.
On closer inspection, it isn't even very clear why the law barring hunting on Sunday remains on the books except that we removed all the other Blue Laws piecemeal (usually as a result of business pressure) and have now logically gotten around to this one. I say logically because there can be no basis in civil liberty for its continuance. And furthermore, there is no question that hunting, as a recreational pastime, is as reasonable as the Sunday drive or boating or hiking or cutting wood or any of the other individual pursuits of men and women everywhere.
Unless...the old Blue Law is now being used as a means of personal discrimination by the few as it was once used as a vehicle for religious restriction by the many. And there appears to be ample evidence for this conjecture.
I'll say here that this should not be a question for the proponents or the adversaries of hunting per se. The law should not be used to force the views of one ideological group upon another. Not in these United States, at least. Here, the law is formulated for the good of the society. Law are meant to enforce and model by both content and process reasonable behavior for the population as a whole. In this country, liberty and the pursuit of happiness ( when these don't unduly threaten the safety of the community) are the reasonable behaviors we base our society upon.
Putting aside the question of discriminatory application of the law for a bit, is hunting a reasonable liberty and pursuit of the population? Does hunting unduly threaten the safety of the individual or endanger the fabric of our community? Let's briefly examine these points.
What is a reasonable liberty? By our own standards of behavior, driving a vehicle is reasonable. It is also likely to be the most dangerous behavior we engage in for both ourselves and others around us. But we consider this reasonable nonetheless and not unduly threatening. So too, power boating. Despite the very high risk of accidental drowning and injury, and the obvious risks of sharing finite water space with swimmers (who enjoy similar risks) and sailors, boating is accepted as reasonable. Hiking is also reasonable. Hikers erode trails, damage wild plants and harass wildlife. Unintentionally or not the nature of hiking is intrusion into non-human dominated spaces. Hiking also results in unwanted contact between strangers in remote places and (accidental?) trespass but hiking too is deemed a reasonable individual recreation. The list goes on. The cutting of wood is permitted. It too may encompass real risks for the person and the environment along with the air and noise pollution it creates, nonetheless it too is reasonable.
All of the outdoor activities noted above are reasonable and all are legal to pursue on Sunday but not hunting. Is hunting riskier to the participant or the non-participant than these? No. The insurance actuarial tables are clear on the greater risks of injury and death from driving, swimming, boating, hiking, chain sawing, bicycling, etc. All of these are greater risks to the individual and the community than hunting. Therefore, we allow reasonable people to make reasonable efforts to pursue these interests at their liberty on Sunday.
Just to underscore the point made above, we also allow citizens of the Commonwealth to also consume alcohol and then consider it reasonable for them to use good judgment while under the influence of a known mind altering drug in their further choices of behavior. We even allow them to alter their minds with alcohol and THEN drive and partake in the various dangerous and destructive activities listed above! This is certainly a notable recognition of the value personal liberty has for us.
By way of comparison of their behavior and/or threat to the community, hunters are certainly less numerous than hikers and by necessity they utilize out of the way locales. Hunting is so much more difficult than hiking or biking that it is often ruined just by the presence of others regardless of their willingness to share the natural resources or not. Hunters are certainly quieter than sawyers and pollute less than any engine driven vehicle. They are responsible for the operation of significantly less dangerous machinery than a car or a boat (according to the insurance companies) and often have no cause to operate their bow or firearm at all in the course of a day afield. Think about it, how many people just sit in their car or boat without ever starting it up and going somewhere?
In addition, hunters must have demonstrated, by test or experience, both a knowledge of the law and their responsibilities under it to be licensed for their activity. Only automobile operators have a similar responsibility. Sawyers, bikers, riders, boaters, sailors and such have no such requirement to demonstrate their awareness of the dangers or impact of their pastimes in shared public places.
It is also important to recognize and honor that hunters pay the state a license fee directly to support the environment of their pursuit. These are the same environmental resource that others do not pay a cent to enjoy as well. Do hikers pay? Boaters? Campers? Swimmers? I could go on.
Now that we have a broader view of the what is reasonable and realistic behavior in public places, let's expand upon an earlier point. Times change. In these times, it is not uncommon for a working person trying to care for their family to work two jobs or six days a week or a weekend job. This is certainly a laudable though often necessary sacrifice and I think you would agree that such individuals should be respected for their efforts and for their responsibility to their family and community. Then isn't it unreasonable to deny this person the opportunity to pursue their interests on the one day they are likely to have any time off for themselves? Do we really expect everyone to be so well off that they can and should take a weekday or a Saturday off from work if they want to go hunting? Is it our intent nowadays to support a law against Sunday hunting that means that responsible hard working individuals should just accept loosing out because they have put their family first? It sure looks like the "haves" are unwilling to share what is in the public trust with the "have nots".
It is time to join the 21st Century. The "Blue Laws" of the 19th Century no longer apply to today's society. Today's society is a 7 day work week with little time spent pursuing ones chosen recreational activities. The continued balking at the issue of Sunday hunting is tantamount to "Recreational Discrimination" There are many arguments that arise in the presence of this issue. All of which hold no weight when really scrutinized. It seems that the biggest debate is the religious belief that Sunday is a day of worship. Isn't there a thing nowadays supported by the constitution called the separation of Church and State. It seems that the continued use of this argument is unconstitutional.
I implore you to vote in the affirmative on these issues when they come to vote. I also implore you to do as much research on the subject as possible. If it works in 43 other states it can't be as bad as others would have you believe.
#57
ORIGINAL: PhoenixMA
UNBELIEVEABLE!!! Last year I donated over 1200 dollars to the Police Unity Tour, More than 200 man hours to training the local Police Department and another 20 hours per month operating as an auxiliary police officer keeping my community safe. All for NO FINANCIAL GAIN!! that does not include weekly donations to our church in the offering plate and the food bank.
REM you know not where of you speak!
ORIGINAL: Rem1100
there ya go....gotta have ALL that $$$,huh?.....
there ya go....gotta have ALL that $$$,huh?.....
REM you know not where of you speak!
#58
Nontypical Buck
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,032
Likes: 0
From: Olive Branch MS USA
I've been hunting for 30 plus years now and have always been able to hunt on Sundays down here in Mississippi. If I couldn't hunt on Sunday I think I'd just have to move to another state.
#59
Rem1100 wrote:
All anyone is trying to say is it should be up to the individual whether or not to hunt on Sundays. Our country was and is based upon Christianity but our forefathers were far from perfect....slavery.....only men being allowed to vote.....witchunts.... just to name a few a few .
well Bro..it's like this..THIS country was founded upon CHRISTIAN values & principles,was it not?
All anyone is trying to say is it should be up to the individual whether or not to hunt on Sundays. Our country was and is based upon Christianity but our forefathers were far from perfect....slavery.....only men being allowed to vote.....witchunts.... just to name a few a few .
#60
OK HERES THE FACTS.
there are 35 states that allow sunday hunting and 8 that allow it with restriction so that is a total of 43 states that allow it so why cant va be the 44th? old laws change as time goes on to fit society better all the time and i believe this should be one of them. when the ban was put into law hunting wasnt a big deal but now that you have so many people hunting in the state it would be better for everyone.
there are 35 states that allow sunday hunting and 8 that allow it with restriction so that is a total of 43 states that allow it so why cant va be the 44th? old laws change as time goes on to fit society better all the time and i believe this should be one of them. when the ban was put into law hunting wasnt a big deal but now that you have so many people hunting in the state it would be better for everyone.


