Brass inspection/Safety Concerns
12-09-2010, 06:53 PM
#12
Spike
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: North Florida
Posts: 56
I think you either have a piece of trash, or maybe some cleaning media stuck inside your die causing that or a bad die. I've had a piece of walnut media do the same once. Personally I wouldn't use those cases. Check the inside your die and let us know what you find.
If that brass is a must have you could fire form them back with a min load but if you have more than enough brass I wouldn't waist the components. Furthermore, do check your shoulder bump back to make sure your not pushing them back too far. You only need a max of .001 set back for proper clearance. Another thing is make sure your not over lubing your cases as this will cause a build-up and create the same problem.
CC is right you will have to clean that die real good. It don't take a big piece of junk to make a dimple. I use "breaklean" to clean my dies.
CC is right you will have to clean that die real good. It don't take a big piece of junk to make a dimple. I use "breaklean" to clean my dies.
Hahahahaha!
I did the same thing myself the first time I ran rifle brass through the FL sizer!
Relax, take a deep breath, everything's just fine.
First, I doubt there's any junk up in your die.
Second, what type of lube are you using?
To me, that looks like an excessive lube dimple on the shoulder.
When I do a full length resize on brass, on the very first two pieces of brass I put through the die, I go a little heavy on the lube.
After that, it's very sparing. They don't need to be slathered in butter, just a nice light coat - enough to keep them from sticking up in that die.
I use the RCBS lube and pad, roll them around on the body only, then use my fingers to slime a little up onto the neck and shoulders. Works pretty well for me.
My suggestion is this - clean your die, check your vent hole in the side of the die, and carry on with the project.
You're doing fine...relax.
Have a great day!
Dave
I did the same thing myself the first time I ran rifle brass through the FL sizer!
Relax, take a deep breath, everything's just fine.
First, I doubt there's any junk up in your die.
Second, what type of lube are you using?
To me, that looks like an excessive lube dimple on the shoulder.
When I do a full length resize on brass, on the very first two pieces of brass I put through the die, I go a little heavy on the lube.
After that, it's very sparing. They don't need to be slathered in butter, just a nice light coat - enough to keep them from sticking up in that die.
I use the RCBS lube and pad, roll them around on the body only, then use my fingers to slime a little up onto the neck and shoulders. Works pretty well for me.
My suggestion is this - clean your die, check your vent hole in the side of the die, and carry on with the project.
You're doing fine...relax.
Have a great day!
Dave
Using all Lee components, including lube.Probably lube dents from excess case lube. As has been stated, lube body of case sparingly. I use a q-tip to lube the INSIDE of the neck only, and just lightly. you need to be sure you are lubing the inside of the necks! Keep lube off the shoulder of the cases, and outside of necks. I'm sure your troubles will disappear. Clean your sizer die out.
if you are loading for a bolt gun and the brass has only been shot out of your specific gun just neck size it. Way less work and way better for the life of the brass.
You mentioned a collet die so i am guessing you are using the Lee Collet neck sizer. You dont need any lube for that and they work very well in my experience. Just trim your brass every 2 loads and shoot away.
I wouldnt worry about any tiny dimples from excess lube but your pic looks like they are bigger than any I have ever done. I would think those dents will shoot out no problem though.
Some may disagree but I only actulally lube every other case when Im full sizing with my Lee dies. I use the Rcbs lube and that stuff is thick! There is going to be a little left in the die and expander ball after running it through. I've never had a stuck case even though I might be taking a chance. Ive actually tried lubing one then running 2 dry ones through. The 3rd one was pretty stiff so I would not recommend that.
You mentioned a collet die so i am guessing you are using the Lee Collet neck sizer. You dont need any lube for that and they work very well in my experience. Just trim your brass every 2 loads and shoot away.
I wouldnt worry about any tiny dimples from excess lube but your pic looks like they are bigger than any I have ever done. I would think those dents will shoot out no problem though.
Some may disagree but I only actulally lube every other case when Im full sizing with my Lee dies. I use the Rcbs lube and that stuff is thick! There is going to be a little left in the die and expander ball after running it through. I've never had a stuck case even though I might be taking a chance. Ive actually tried lubing one then running 2 dry ones through. The 3rd one was pretty stiff so I would not recommend that.
Good point!
I agree, never lubed the neck & shoulder in 30 years of reloading and don't plan to start now. That would only add to the problem. I don't even lube the inside of the neck. If you clean you brass real good particularly the inside of the case neck there is no need to lube. Your best bet is to FL size for the first firing and then use a neck sizer die until the brass starts to fit the chamber a little too snug, than FL size again. You'll get much longer life out of your brass that way.
That is as long as your not running your loads too hot in that 7mm!
I agree, never lubed the neck & shoulder in 30 years of reloading and don't plan to start now. That would only add to the problem. I don't even lube the inside of the neck. If you clean you brass real good particularly the inside of the case neck there is no need to lube. Your best bet is to FL size for the first firing and then use a neck sizer die until the brass starts to fit the chamber a little too snug, than FL size again. You'll get much longer life out of your brass that way.
That is as long as your not running your loads too hot in that 7mm!
12-09-2010, 07:19 PM
#13
Typical Buck
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 588
"I will probably never go to the length that many of you probably do! But my Old-Timer friend says I'll get hooked... we'll see! "
LOL! Yea! I said that too....
I use a spray lube, you can lay out a bunch of cases on news paper or wax paper and spray them. You don't get nearly as much build up as with the Lee lube.
"LOL! Yea! I said that too....
I use a spray lube, you can lay out a bunch of cases on news paper or wax paper and spray them. You don't get nearly as much build up as with the Lee lube.
12-11-2010, 08:22 AM
#14
Spike
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: North Florida
Posts: 56
WOOHOO!!!! 
Feeling pretty good about myself right now! Went out to test my loads... I am still alive! Here is a pic of the results.
Why did the crimped shots change in accuracy? And why do my loads kick more than the factory Winchester 125s??
Yeah, Baby!
Feeling pretty good about myself right now! Went out to test my loads... I am still alive! Here is a pic of the results.
Why did the crimped shots change in accuracy? And why do my loads kick more than the factory Winchester 125s??
Yeah, Baby!
12-11-2010, 08:38 AM
#15
Guest
Posts: n/a
I know I used to not lube the inside, and did an experiement measuring the shoulder placment variations and concentricity. The lubed necks winned by a longshot.
12-11-2010, 04:00 PM
#16
Fork Horn
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Southern New Hampshire
Posts: 190
By crimping you are changing the pressures within the case from the non-crimped rounds which inturn will change your POI. If you had run them over a chronograph you probably would have notice a change in velocity, though not much. Even though you only shot 5 rounds, to me, your target shows your rifle doesn't like it when you crimp that bullet.
12-11-2010, 06:06 PM
#17
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: S.W. Pa.-- Heart in North Central Pa. mountains-
Posts: 2,600
I don't believe you need to crimp the 7mm mag. The ONLY loads I crimp are my 45-70 and handgun loads. I don"t even crimp my 338 Win Mags. Set your die for no crimp. Have you established an off the lands depth for bullet seating? If not, I would recommend 0.020 to start. The Hornady unit which measures off the ojive is a good one.
Different types of bullets have different ojives, and measuring from the bullet tips, especially on lead-tipped bullets gives unreliable results. The bullet ojive is the point that the bullet stikes the riflling. This measurement is useful in determining proper bullet seating depth, but the whole thing is also compromised by your total magazine length. You best not seat bullets with a total COL longer than your magazine will tolerate, or you will end up with a single-shot gun.... one in the chamber and the rest in your hand. Been there, done that.
Don't wanta make it too hard for ya, but it's something you need to learn to deal with....
Different types of bullets have different ojives, and measuring from the bullet tips, especially on lead-tipped bullets gives unreliable results. The bullet ojive is the point that the bullet stikes the riflling. This measurement is useful in determining proper bullet seating depth, but the whole thing is also compromised by your total magazine length. You best not seat bullets with a total COL longer than your magazine will tolerate, or you will end up with a single-shot gun.... one in the chamber and the rest in your hand. Been there, done that.
Don't wanta make it too hard for ya, but it's something you need to learn to deal with....
12-12-2010, 03:15 PM
#18
Spike
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: North Florida
Posts: 56
By crimping you are changing the pressures within the case from the non-crimped rounds which inturn will change your POI. If you had run them over a chronograph you probably would have notice a change in velocity, though not much. Even though you only shot 5 rounds, to me, your target shows your rifle doesn't like it when you crimp that bullet.
I don't believe you need to crimp the 7mm mag. The ONLY loads I crimp are my 45-70 and handgun loads. I don"t even crimp my 338 Win Mags. Set your die for no crimp. Have you established an off the lands depth for bullet seating? If not, I would recommend 0.020 to start. The Hornady unit which measures off the ojive is a good one.
Different types of bullets have different ojives, and measuring from the bullet tips, especially on lead-tipped bullets gives unreliable results. The bullet ojive is the point that the bullet stikes the riflling. This measurement is useful in determining proper bullet seating depth, but the whole thing is also compromised by your total magazine length. You best not seat bullets with a total COL longer than your magazine will tolerate, or you will end up with a single-shot gun.... one in the chamber and the rest in your hand. Been there, done that.
Don't wanta make it too hard for ya, but it's something you need to learn to deal with....
Different types of bullets have different ojives, and measuring from the bullet tips, especially on lead-tipped bullets gives unreliable results. The bullet ojive is the point that the bullet stikes the riflling. This measurement is useful in determining proper bullet seating depth, but the whole thing is also compromised by your total magazine length. You best not seat bullets with a total COL longer than your magazine will tolerate, or you will end up with a single-shot gun.... one in the chamber and the rest in your hand. Been there, done that.
Don't wanta make it too hard for ya, but it's something you need to learn to deal with....
Thanks, All.
12-13-2010, 06:55 AM
#19
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: S.W. Pa.-- Heart in North Central Pa. mountains-
Posts: 2,600
There are several methods to determine maximum overall length for a particular bullet in a particular gun. Here is the one I like...
Pick the bullet you wish to use. Take a resized case and using a Dremel tool cut two slits in the neck down to the shoulder 180 deg. from each other. Clean up any burrs in/on the neck from the cutting of the slits. Now take the bullet of your choice and with finger pressure only, just start the bullet into the slit neck. Place the case & bullet into the chamber of your rifle and slowly but firmly close and lock the bolt. Then verrry gently, open the bolt and CAREFULLY remove the combo. With your calipers and hopefully the Hornady tool, take several caliper readings. They should be uniform. If you have some sort of bullet removing tool, collet or inertia hammer, pull the bullet. Run a couple more measurement tests exactly the same as the first one. Results should be very, very close to each other. Record that figure, which is your max. overall length for that bullet type/producer in that particular gun. Bullet on the lands. For example, if your total max length is 3.286, and you want to start at 0.020" off the lands, you need to adjust your seater die & plug so your OAL is 3.266", again with THAT particular type/make bullet in that particular gun. Record all this info and keep it filed away for future reference. (Saves a LOT of headaches in the future...). 0.010" off the lands would read 3.276". OK? Hopefully, your finished loaded rounds will fall inside the max length dimension of your box magazine. You should take into consideration the max. box mag. length as you set a seating depth.
Another method uses calipers, bullet of choice, and a long straight rod that will easily slide down the bore with a FLAT tip. The tip MUST be flat across its surface. A cleaning rod can be used, but close up the screw hole in the end as the tip of a bullet can slip inside it and give a false reading.
With the bolt closed and locked, slide the rod down the barrel until it rests firmly on the bolt face. Mark the rod EXACTLY where it exits the muzzle. I use a razorblade and slide it across the muzzle until I can score a reference line on the rod. Remove the rod, open the bolt, and insert bullet of choice into the chamber. With an eraser-tipped pencil, hold the bullet in place against the lands. Carefully re-insert the rod into the bore until it just touches the bullet tip. This is why the rod MUST have a flat end.. Using the same procedures as before, carefully mark the rod at the exit from the muzzle. Measure the distance between the marks. This is your max. OAL for that particular bullet. You can now use the procedures described above for setting a distance off the lands. Personally, I perfer the first procedure....
Pick the bullet you wish to use. Take a resized case and using a Dremel tool cut two slits in the neck down to the shoulder 180 deg. from each other. Clean up any burrs in/on the neck from the cutting of the slits. Now take the bullet of your choice and with finger pressure only, just start the bullet into the slit neck. Place the case & bullet into the chamber of your rifle and slowly but firmly close and lock the bolt. Then verrry gently, open the bolt and CAREFULLY remove the combo. With your calipers and hopefully the Hornady tool, take several caliper readings. They should be uniform. If you have some sort of bullet removing tool, collet or inertia hammer, pull the bullet. Run a couple more measurement tests exactly the same as the first one. Results should be very, very close to each other. Record that figure, which is your max. overall length for that bullet type/producer in that particular gun. Bullet on the lands. For example, if your total max length is 3.286, and you want to start at 0.020" off the lands, you need to adjust your seater die & plug so your OAL is 3.266", again with THAT particular type/make bullet in that particular gun. Record all this info and keep it filed away for future reference. (Saves a LOT of headaches in the future...). 0.010" off the lands would read 3.276". OK? Hopefully, your finished loaded rounds will fall inside the max length dimension of your box magazine. You should take into consideration the max. box mag. length as you set a seating depth.
Another method uses calipers, bullet of choice, and a long straight rod that will easily slide down the bore with a FLAT tip. The tip MUST be flat across its surface. A cleaning rod can be used, but close up the screw hole in the end as the tip of a bullet can slip inside it and give a false reading.
With the bolt closed and locked, slide the rod down the barrel until it rests firmly on the bolt face. Mark the rod EXACTLY where it exits the muzzle. I use a razorblade and slide it across the muzzle until I can score a reference line on the rod. Remove the rod, open the bolt, and insert bullet of choice into the chamber. With an eraser-tipped pencil, hold the bullet in place against the lands. Carefully re-insert the rod into the bore until it just touches the bullet tip. This is why the rod MUST have a flat end.. Using the same procedures as before, carefully mark the rod at the exit from the muzzle. Measure the distance between the marks. This is your max. OAL for that particular bullet. You can now use the procedures described above for setting a distance off the lands. Personally, I perfer the first procedure....
12-13-2010, 11:50 AM
#20
Fork Horn
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Southern New Hampshire
Posts: 190
I was thinking that increased pressure would cause the bullet to strike high. Why did they strike low?
The Barnes rep said NOT to crimp. I only did so because the bullets were loose after FL sizing. The second batch I neck sized AFTER full length sizing, and that tightened them up. No crimping involved. My target OA length was 3.24", as recommended by Barnes. How do I determine "off the lands"?
Thanks, All.
The Barnes rep said NOT to crimp. I only did so because the bullets were loose after FL sizing. The second batch I neck sized AFTER full length sizing, and that tightened them up. No crimping involved. My target OA length was 3.24", as recommended by Barnes. How do I determine "off the lands"?
Thanks, All.
pawildman has given you two good ways to measure however I wouldn't start moving the bullet around until you settle on a load that you are satisfied with and then adjust your seating depth to tighten up the group...if it will help. But knowing where your at now will help you determine how much your moving the bullet later.