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NY Bowhunters proposal

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NY Bowhunters proposal

Old 02-04-2005, 09:59 AM
  #11  
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Default RE: NY Bowhunters proposal

I'll answer that not much.
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Old 02-04-2005, 10:06 AM
  #12  
Nontypical Buck
 
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Default RE: NY Bowhunters proposal

Yes, I am a member, because I feel they are the best voice we have. But like any organization, they are not all things to all people - me included.

You are right about the early season - guess I am just happy with the 4 to 5 weeks we currently have. As far as bow in late dec, I am not comfortable with my ability to be proficient with the clothing needed so I choose the inline. I understand other bowhunters are and have no problem with that. I just do not feel for me at least, more late bow season opportunities justify changes in the early season.

As I have said, I hunt the gun and late mz with a Omega inline - a one shot rifle. I enjoy it greatly. But, other than the fact the dec sells a mz tag (many or most of which are used as a 2nd tag for bowhunters), I see no reason (but AM NOT OPPOSED TO) for a seperate mz season. I hunt with a recurve, longbow and compound in the BOW season - not trad season and modern bow season.

We have a 23 day reg gun plus 7 day mz proposed to go to 14. If use of the mz tag was allowed in gun season, then we would end up with nearly the same length gun season as bow. As far as allowing bows to be used in the gun seasons, I feel the archers impact to hunting pressure in gun season in almost non exsistant.

I would like to keep bows in bow and guns in gun. This is not a selfish position. Gun hunting for deer does effect bow hunting. for the most part, bow hunting has almost no impact on gun hunting. I believe there are ways to do this which will be fair to all and not require the drastic changes being proposed. We can increase opportunities and harvest where genuinely needed without the major changes being suggested.
Yes, archery season has grown over the years, but NEVER at the expense of another season. Because I hunt all seasons, I do not want this to become a us vs them issue. I hope I have cleared my stance somewhat here.
Steve
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Old 02-04-2005, 10:13 AM
  #13  
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Default RE: NY Bowhunters proposal

DB - the problem I see is we do not know for sure at this point and once in place, the season will stay. And the potential for it to grow in numbers participating and to become an antlered season also is huge with will only serve to increase the effect.

As I said in my above post, mz could become a 37 day season by allowing use of the tags in regular gun and extending it for 14 days. A tremendous increase in opportunity and NO impact now or ever on the bow season.

Steve
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Old 02-04-2005, 01:23 PM
  #14  
 
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Default RE: NY Bowhunters proposal

I think Im pretty much agreeing with most of you, for the most part. But, I dont want to extend the back side of the season, quite honestly. I feel that theres enough stressed big bucks that drop antlers early, like late November and into December that I just would rather not see the season go any later than it already is. Nothing worse then seeing a great buck shot as a doe, because he no longer carried antlers. Ok, it doesnt happen a great deal, but every time IS a loss, to me. Not much has been said about muzzleloaders concerning primitive, as in no optics, etc, vs inlines with all the accessories. I think most of us MZers use them during the gun season too, let us use the tag then as well. I hate to break down seasons for "us" and "them" when we talk about MZ and bow hunters, gunhunters, etc. Most of us are two or three of those same hunters! As Ive said before, earlier seasons seem ok, the MZ week in the middle IS silly, and for me as a taxidermist, lets not make the season too darned long, it wears me out as it is!!!
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Old 02-04-2005, 01:29 PM
  #15  
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Default RE: NY Bowhunters proposal

So where's your shop located Bill?
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Old 02-04-2005, 01:29 PM
  #16  
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Default RE: NY Bowhunters proposal

People who have no idea why there is a seperate MZ season have never presented a logical argument whatsoever to back that view up. If that is the view, then bow should not have a season either....

Just because the technology has advanced in MZ has no bearing on whether or not a seperate season is needed.

Last time I checked...bow has made some fairly nice developments.

I hunt all three manners, and love them all. But those who say MZ has no place outside of the regular firearms season haven't looked in the mirror.

I really find it hard to believe we will change any of the proposals at all. It will be our season next year. However, I am hoping it does.
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Old 02-04-2005, 01:42 PM
  #17  
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Default RE: NY Bowhunters proposal

ORIGINAL: SteveBNy

DB - the problem I see is we do not know for sure at this point and once in place, the season will stay. And the potential for it to grow in numbers participating and to become an antlered season also is huge with will only serve to increase the effect.

As I said in my above post, mz could become a 37 day season by allowing use of the tags in regular gun and extending it for 14 days. A tremendous increase in opportunity and NO impact now or ever on the bow season.

Steve
It has ZERO to do with the convienience of bow hunters. You are on the totally wrong plane of thought.

Their reasoning behind the early MZ season is control based. They want to better manage the deer numbers. If they were simply trying to meet the goals of MZ hunters, they would have an early doe AND buck season.

To sit here and think the DEC has hunting "convienience" in mind first is like taking the climber up the tree without the bow. Sure you get to see stuff, but nothing goes down.

The first and primary goal is to manage the deer numbers. AFTER that is met, then they worry about secondary goals.

Hence, the only logical way to attack that is to say that the deer take by bowhunters after the early MZ season will be severely lowered, limiting the ability to control herd population.

But, the DEC's response is logical to that. They will say....."Why do you think we put an early doe only MZ season in?"..............Answer: Because bowhunters are not controlling the herd as well as a week long doe only MZ season would. And I have to agree on that one, unfortunately.

I really do not want the changed seasons, I'd accept this past one with an additional week to 3 weeks on the end for MZ only. I think that would be fair, and would get some deer downed.

However, that will never change...why? Snowmobile people are lobbying against it. They pay a large part of the state's enviornmental bill with their fees, and the state has to listen to them to a point. Their goal is to have NO hunting days tacked on at the end of the current season. If their money was removed, you would feel the pinch as a hunter in your license fees.
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Old 02-04-2005, 02:32 PM
  #18  
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Default RE: NY Bowhunters proposal

Last time I checked...bow has made some fairly nice developments
But all archery tacke is still in archery season. And while longer shots are possible, it is still a 20 yard and closer harvest. National average for bow kill is less than 23 yards. Those that use it in gun have little or no impact on gun hunters.

Just because the technology has advanced in MZ has no bearing on whether or not a seperate season is needed
.
That is exactly the reason an arguement can be made for no need for a seperate season (which once again I do not oppose unles it effects other seasons) - the only advantage a shotgun has is more shots. A modern inline for the most part is more accurate, has longer range, and can be reloaded with speed loaders in as little as 15 seconds. I am a 3 season hunter utilizing my Omega in 2 of them because it is a superior tool. I say this while looking in the mirror

If they want to better control the numbers, then let the hunters who routinely fill doe tags get more. Give everyone one to start instead of 2 randomly to hunters that may not fill even one. Return a filled tag and get issued another until the harvest numbers are met in the section.
Last year I had 3 tags with the super sportsman and drew only 1 more dmp. Had 2 more dmp legally signed over. Shot one buck in bow and filled the 4 antlerless tags. Many hunters in my section had 2 original dmps and at most filled only one. I hunt a lot and had many opportunities to fill more dmp if they were available and would have to donate to the Venizon programs. I was happy with my year and did not need to fill more tags but would have for management reasons.

The point I keep trying to make is that any goal the DEC is trying to achieve can be met WITHOUT splitting the seasons. Why go beyond what is needed to accomplish this.
Steve
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Old 02-04-2005, 03:42 PM
  #19  
Typical Buck
 
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Default RE: NY Bowhunters proposal

ORIGINAL: SteveBNy

Last time I checked...bow has made some fairly nice developments
But all archery tacke is still in archery season. And while longer shots are possible, it is still a 20 yard and closer harvest. National average for bow kill is less than 23 yards. Those that use it in gun have little or no impact on gun hunters.

Just because the technology has advanced in MZ has no bearing on whether or not a seperate season is needed
.
That is exactly the reason an arguement can be made for no need for a seperate season (which once again I do not oppose unles it effects other seasons) - the only advantage a shotgun has is more shots. A modern inline for the most part is more accurate, has longer range, and can be reloaded with speed loaders in as little as 15 seconds. I am a 3 season hunter utilizing my Omega in 2 of them because it is a superior tool. I say this while looking in the mirror

If they want to better control the numbers, then let the hunters who routinely fill doe tags get more. Give everyone one to start instead of 2 randomly to hunters that may not fill even one. Return a filled tag and get issued another until the harvest numbers are met in the section.
Last year I had 3 tags with the super sportsman and drew only 1 more dmp. Had 2 more dmp legally signed over. Shot one buck in bow and filled the 4 antlerless tags. Many hunters in my section had 2 original dmps and at most filled only one. I hunt a lot and had many opportunities to fill more dmp if they were available and would have to donate to the Venizon programs. I was happy with my year and did not need to fill more tags but would have for management reasons.

The point I keep trying to make is that any goal the DEC is trying to achieve can be met WITHOUT splitting the seasons. Why go beyond what is needed to accomplish this.
Steve
You can use a bow all season long. Just because a MZ can be used during gun has no bearing on it not having its own season.

I frequently drive my race car on the streets in the summer. Should I not be allowed to race during the racing seasons it because I can drive it on the streets too? Same logic.

And a MZ has no or little impact during the reg. firearms season. Yes, a bit of extended range, but that is it.

Your arguement for technology is not logical. Alot of deer are NOT taken on the first shot. Yes that is the goal, but sometimes it happens. If you replaced shotguns with modern MZ'ers, the state deer take numbers would not be at their goals. Hence while a MZer is a good choice to control the population, it is NOT as effective as a shotgun season.

Both bow and MZ have weaknesses, and a seperate season is a logical and reasonable expectation for hunters.

Just because your yardage has not increased in bows technology wise and a mz has does not make it reasonable to ban an mz season.

You want to see NYS go bankrupt fast? Enact your policy on doe tags....then watch the lawsuits fly for discrimination.The only way they get around that is through the signing over of DMP's, which they do now. It is a basic prinicple of law that they cannot enact a version similar to yours, they have thought of a similar control method, and that led to the current format.

If you state that the DEC can get their goals met without seperating the seasons, then you would have it that bow, shotgun, and MZ all can hunt during the same season (IE no seperate seasons whatsoever)?
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Old 02-04-2005, 11:35 PM
  #20  
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Default RE: NY Bowhunters proposal

Personally I don't buy the DEC's claim they want a 7 day ML season to help control the deer population better. Not when they reduced DMP's in most of the state in 2004, and I just read in todays Syracuse paper DMP's will be reduced again for 2005, after another low deer harvest for 2004. The exact numbers have not been made avail yet. But they are saying the harvest was lower then 2003. If the DMP's are lowered, I don't foresee many areas even being opened to this doe only 7 day ML. Probably mostly western NY. I think its more of a push from the ML organizations to extend ML opportunities seeing hunters pay the same fee's for archery as do ML, and get less time. I also feel the ML season will increase in time, and most likely become a either sex season in several DMU's. As it is in the Northern Zone.
Back to the early season bowhunting. I enjoy it alot. Its great to start archery, setting up on food sources, then changing setups to the patterns of deer. You get to hunt it all from early fall feeding to pre-rut to full rut. Some yrs I start 9/27, I can never get enough bow time in.
On the Oct 1st ML idea. I don't know there. It'd obviously have less effect on the population towards rut. But it may drive some Big Bucks into Noctornal life earlier then normal. I could live with a early ML season then archery. But I'd prefer it before the regular season or late season like many suggest.
I don't foresee the DEC changing it all for 2005 anyways. Not with meetings Sch. all this Feb yet. But who knows. I just hope it works out for the best for everyone.
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