what do you want in pa
01-01-2005, 05:28 PM
#21
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Cornwall, Pa.
Posts: 1,720
RE: what do you want in pa
Hire an experienced biologist to run the PGC with CONTROL and responsibility for programs and game management. Release the politicians and those that are not contributing to the programs in place and established regulations. Basically, clean up their act.
01-01-2005, 06:19 PM
#22
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 26
RE: what do you want in pa
Thank you for the wonderful response Bowhunt05...
My point is that everyone on this forum seems to be picking a specific group to target.
Non-Resident Hunters
Archery Hunters
Children Hunters
Some with to cut doe tags 60%
Others only want residents to shot does
Other areas of the state need to have increased harvest
I'm sure if I reread all of the posts that I could come up with some other categories, but those three stick out. There does seem to be a common thread amongst those three though, every group enjoys hunting.
I'm sure as Sniper indicated that with proper sound management at the State and Local levels that you may not have exactly what each of you want, but there are room for improvements in many aspects.
It does leave very little misunderstanding though based on the responses that no matter what the PGC does, everyone isn't going to be happy. There are going to be emotionally based, non-game management responses...and so be it. Hopefully though, some of the people that are making intelligent suggestions that are good for both hunters and the deer herd will speak and be heard by the PGC.
As far as the monetary dollars...my point was that with proper game management and deer numbers, the state is reaping a large amount of money from non-resident hunters. You are correct, without the deer numbers that number will shrink. My thought is that you can have both with proper management. I'm pretty sure that is what the many citizens who's business thrives off these hunters would agree they want the deer numbers up to continue to attract them.
As to your statement "thats half of americas problem todays to many people have to study something"......you are right. But I certainly hope that they do an indepth study of the deer herd to do the right things and included in that study are listening to people, such as yourself and the other members here who seem to have a vast range of suggestions and ideas concerning the situation and are so very passionate about it.
My point is that everyone on this forum seems to be picking a specific group to target.
Non-Resident Hunters
Archery Hunters
Children Hunters
Some with to cut doe tags 60%
Others only want residents to shot does
Other areas of the state need to have increased harvest
I'm sure if I reread all of the posts that I could come up with some other categories, but those three stick out. There does seem to be a common thread amongst those three though, every group enjoys hunting.
I'm sure as Sniper indicated that with proper sound management at the State and Local levels that you may not have exactly what each of you want, but there are room for improvements in many aspects.
It does leave very little misunderstanding though based on the responses that no matter what the PGC does, everyone isn't going to be happy. There are going to be emotionally based, non-game management responses...and so be it. Hopefully though, some of the people that are making intelligent suggestions that are good for both hunters and the deer herd will speak and be heard by the PGC.
As far as the monetary dollars...my point was that with proper game management and deer numbers, the state is reaping a large amount of money from non-resident hunters. You are correct, without the deer numbers that number will shrink. My thought is that you can have both with proper management. I'm pretty sure that is what the many citizens who's business thrives off these hunters would agree they want the deer numbers up to continue to attract them.
As to your statement "thats half of americas problem todays to many people have to study something"......you are right. But I certainly hope that they do an indepth study of the deer herd to do the right things and included in that study are listening to people, such as yourself and the other members here who seem to have a vast range of suggestions and ideas concerning the situation and are so very passionate about it.
01-01-2005, 07:08 PM
#23
Join Date: May 2004
Location:
Posts: 255
RE: what do you want in pa
May I point out this is just trying to appease as many little special interest groups....which is what Alt tried. His efforts to appease the Pa Farm bureau, the foresters, yucky rack hunters, youth hunters, guys in the military only home for one weekend, qdm fad followers, bird watchers, lease owners, DCNR.....etc etc etc is how we ended up with this watered down medicore deer plan of today.
Thats what happens when you try to please everyone....in the end you end up making no one happy.
You guys are just proposing more of the same...
Face up to the facts. At one time the state did cater to traditionla hunters who were hung up on the fetish of big racks. Most pa hunters were happy to harvest any available buck, those who were not waited until a bigger one came by. The reason we now have a problem is that hunters are no longer satisfied with thier traditional role of merely harvesting the surplus population and going home and eating it.
They now are caught up in fast food drive thru style "supersize" management. Where a buck isn't worth harvesting unless its a "biggie size" 8 point with at least a 16" spread or they don't want it. Gag!!
They want whitetails farmed for them. Raised in pa until big enough to shoot over artificial food plots grown just to get a deer fat enough for a taxidermist. Yuck! makes me sick to think pa is about one step away from just raising deer in pens until they are 10points that score a minmum P&Y before being released for hunters like pheasants.... [:'(]
You can't make everyone in pa happy. Pick who its gonna be. The quality QDM fad, or the quantity happy traditional hunters and go with one....because you cannot please both in pa.
I hate how pa has taken the shallow approach of trying to appease every group, its used to be that most in pa were traditional hunters. Sadly they are not anymore, many want the "bigger better deal" like they see on TV fad hunting shows. Many think QDM will create big Saskatewan booner bucks, yet to do so means cutting numbers so low that hunters will walk away from the sport rather than stick with hunting Pa patheticly small fad herd. It has created a big rift in the pa hunting community, and will probably never heal.
We are going to end up trying to please everyone, and in the end we will please no one....
Thats what happens when you try to please everyone....in the end you end up making no one happy.
You guys are just proposing more of the same...
Face up to the facts. At one time the state did cater to traditionla hunters who were hung up on the fetish of big racks. Most pa hunters were happy to harvest any available buck, those who were not waited until a bigger one came by. The reason we now have a problem is that hunters are no longer satisfied with thier traditional role of merely harvesting the surplus population and going home and eating it.
They now are caught up in fast food drive thru style "supersize" management. Where a buck isn't worth harvesting unless its a "biggie size" 8 point with at least a 16" spread or they don't want it. Gag!!
They want whitetails farmed for them. Raised in pa until big enough to shoot over artificial food plots grown just to get a deer fat enough for a taxidermist. Yuck! makes me sick to think pa is about one step away from just raising deer in pens until they are 10points that score a minmum P&Y before being released for hunters like pheasants.... [:'(]
You can't make everyone in pa happy. Pick who its gonna be. The quality QDM fad, or the quantity happy traditional hunters and go with one....because you cannot please both in pa.
I hate how pa has taken the shallow approach of trying to appease every group, its used to be that most in pa were traditional hunters. Sadly they are not anymore, many want the "bigger better deal" like they see on TV fad hunting shows. Many think QDM will create big Saskatewan booner bucks, yet to do so means cutting numbers so low that hunters will walk away from the sport rather than stick with hunting Pa patheticly small fad herd. It has created a big rift in the pa hunting community, and will probably never heal.
We are going to end up trying to please everyone, and in the end we will please no one....
01-01-2005, 07:32 PM
#24
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Indiana PA USA
Posts: 3,656
RE: what do you want in pa
chickory,
So what is your problem with guys who pass on smaller bucks? Like I have said, I enjoy the challenge of hunting a mature buck instead of a little 1.5 year old spike that isn't the brightest deer in the woods, also, it helps to prolong my hunting season, and I like to see the deer around here grow to their potential.
I hear you and deaddeer and ulysses keep talking about "horn hunters", but alot of guys know that letting the young bucks grow is actually good for the herd. This enables the bucks to mature, which means that there is more competition for breeding does, which means that only the best bucks breed the does, passing on the best genes. I know you keep talking about the best genetic bucks being killed before their time, but that is speculation.
Sorry guys, I am gonna keep passing on small bucks no matter if we have AR's or not. Its not that I am too good for a small buck, its that I like seeing the deer actually get some age under their belt before they are killed. That is also the reason I set feeders out in the winter to help the deer out and I film/video deer all year round along with having game cameras to capture pictures of them. You guys that suggest not having a buck harvest for a year, fine with me, I will hunt with my scouting cameras and start patterning bucks for the next year that bucks are allowed to be harvested!
So what is your problem with guys who pass on smaller bucks? Like I have said, I enjoy the challenge of hunting a mature buck instead of a little 1.5 year old spike that isn't the brightest deer in the woods, also, it helps to prolong my hunting season, and I like to see the deer around here grow to their potential.
I hear you and deaddeer and ulysses keep talking about "horn hunters", but alot of guys know that letting the young bucks grow is actually good for the herd. This enables the bucks to mature, which means that there is more competition for breeding does, which means that only the best bucks breed the does, passing on the best genes. I know you keep talking about the best genetic bucks being killed before their time, but that is speculation.
Sorry guys, I am gonna keep passing on small bucks no matter if we have AR's or not. Its not that I am too good for a small buck, its that I like seeing the deer actually get some age under their belt before they are killed. That is also the reason I set feeders out in the winter to help the deer out and I film/video deer all year round along with having game cameras to capture pictures of them. You guys that suggest not having a buck harvest for a year, fine with me, I will hunt with my scouting cameras and start patterning bucks for the next year that bucks are allowed to be harvested!
01-01-2005, 07:59 PM
#25
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: SW PA USA
Posts: 7,220
RE: what do you want in pa
I hear you and deaddeer and ulysses keep talking about "horn hunters",
All of them have called does the consolation prize or the booby prize. They just arent willing to wait for a mature buck. They have been raised in the Pa Tradition of "any buck is better'n a doe. They arent happy just harvesting "a deer" They need to shoot a buck! Even if it is a spike, and just who the heck are we to get in the way of their own version of a horn hunt!!!!!
01-02-2005, 07:11 AM
#26
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 91
RE: what do you want in pa
The only use i have found for horns is my pitbul like to chew on them
althou it does make a mess
anyway the game comm cannot please everyone but to me you
cannot kill off the doe herd for a big rack buck and i hope pa
never goes to pen raising deer to me thats like rasin a rabbit
in your cage pet it feed all yr then one when you let it out and it
is looking at you you bring out the .22 and shoot it
as an archry hunter in bow sesone i wait for a nice buck thou i am not
a horn hunter so to say i just feel that is the time i like to be in the
woods
come rifle sesone does are goin down it is meat time then
uncle buck good point but i am not agaist any group i rather see
everyone be able to get their deer.
althou it does make a mess
anyway the game comm cannot please everyone but to me you
cannot kill off the doe herd for a big rack buck and i hope pa
never goes to pen raising deer to me thats like rasin a rabbit
in your cage pet it feed all yr then one when you let it out and it
is looking at you you bring out the .22 and shoot it
as an archry hunter in bow sesone i wait for a nice buck thou i am not
a horn hunter so to say i just feel that is the time i like to be in the
woods
come rifle sesone does are goin down it is meat time then
uncle buck good point but i am not agaist any group i rather see
everyone be able to get their deer.
01-02-2005, 12:58 PM
#27
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Jim Thorpe, PA
Posts: 536
RE: what do you want in pa
ORIGINAL: Buck Magnet
So what is your problem with guys who pass on smaller bucks?
So what is your problem with guys who pass on smaller bucks?
01-02-2005, 04:40 PM
#28
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location:
Posts: 91
RE: what do you want in pa
I figured out our problem with the deer herd. People like Buck Magnet who feed the deer.
1.) I thought feeding deer was illegal in PA. If not, it should be.
2.) Anytime, anytime you congregate deer to a feeding area, it is a bad thing. Let wild animals manage themselves and let nature take it's course. It's people like you who do more harm than good. Congregating deer will congregate predators like the coyote, make deer become reliant on your feed and bring in disease. It might make you feel good to feed the deer, but you're hurting the herd. I recommend you to STOP feeding wild animals.
1.) I thought feeding deer was illegal in PA. If not, it should be.
2.) Anytime, anytime you congregate deer to a feeding area, it is a bad thing. Let wild animals manage themselves and let nature take it's course. It's people like you who do more harm than good. Congregating deer will congregate predators like the coyote, make deer become reliant on your feed and bring in disease. It might make you feel good to feed the deer, but you're hurting the herd. I recommend you to STOP feeding wild animals.
01-02-2005, 04:42 PM
#29
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: SW PA USA
Posts: 7,220
RE: what do you want in pa
OK MikeE, why is any buck taken on public ground a trophy but not any deer? Isnt the horn hunting/ wannabe thing just a matter of personal standards? Why is a 3.1 inch spike better than a doe?