ruffed-grouse

Dogs and baiting are a "red herring", a logical fallacy. The discussion is not merely because some other state allows it Pat. That's only a single facet of supportive evidence. It serves as an example for all the naysayers and all their excuses that in EVERY state that has tried inclusion over exclusion, there have been no problems. No evidence has been found to exist in any of those states to support any of the concerns we hear in PA. Restrictions on our Freedoms without any legitimate reason violates the very principles of Freedom. This law is as burdensome as the rejected proposed regulation that would have had bowhunters wearing Fl. Orange merely because they were hunters with a complete lack of any reason other than they are hunters.

This law cuts the available participation time for most hunters by 50%. It discourages participation. It's kept in place by legislators who give excuses that would be laughed at if they tried to apply them to any other activity or group. There's little difference in most of those excuses from the same emotional concerns that were voiced about removing the bans on Sunday Fishing, Sunday Baseball and Sunday Shopping that we also once had.

Yes Pat, you may not be, but your views on this issue are no less anti-hunting than they would be anti-baseball if you supported keeping a Sunday ban on baseball when all similar bans against all other activities had been removed.

Jason N

Well said Ruffed-Grouse.

Please rememind me never to argue with you should the situation occur![8D]

Pat_Ely

Ok so Pennsylvania being the number one State in the amount of hunters has nothing to do with keeping some of the pressure down by not allowing Sunday hunting? My point is I was called an anti hunter because I don't believe it should be opened to Sunday hunting, I guess I'm an Anti because I argued that there shouldn't be a third turkey tag? It just seems to me that some of the hunters that are arguing for sunday hunting aren't arguing for the correct reason either. It has been a law for ages, and it has worked, so why all of sudden is it a nescessity to have sunday hunting? Some have even said it, if you want to hunt on sunday go shoot come crows, or even go call in a coyote or fox. They are arguing for sunday hunting Because they want to go hunt DEER, and yet they complain NOW because they aren't seeing deer, and how you can imagine that Sunday hunting wouldn't put even more pressure on the deer and even effect the population is beyond me.

livbucks

I am convinced that the only reason that the sunday ban remains has nothing to do with the reason it was instituted. It may have had something to do with "blue laws" initially but it stays to be a control method on harvest numbers. The amount of pressure increase on the deer would be unfathomable because sunday is a day when the majority of people would be able to hunt. I would say it would increase pressure by 40% on the deer. I'm all for Sunday hunting , don't get me wrong. I just don't expect it to happen and I understand why, too.

JeramyK

One thing that strikes me is that everyone keeps referring to the impact on deer if Sunday hunting were to be allowed. What about turkey, small game, waterfowl, etc? Would you guys support Sunday hunting if there is a law saying everything but deer?

Pat_Ely

Jeremy No I still wouldn't support it, but you know as well as i do that the sunday controversy is about deer hunting. It would have a big impact on turkeys also, Hens would be bumped off thier nest more frequently causing them to abandon the nests. believe it would have a large impact on wildlife period not only by harvesting but just the amount of hunters that would be in the woods on a sunday since most people are off only on the weekends.

ruffed-grouse

You're being ridiculous, searching for excuses, piling logical fallacies one upon the other. The PGC controls the deer harvest with tags and seasons and can already issue as many as they want or open up another week, month, or every Saturday in the year if that's what they decide is best. Removal of this outdated law would would still leave Sundays up to their discretion just like every other day of the week. If you want to debate having seasons set by politicians and popularity instead of game managers, let's have at it, cause you've obviously missed what's happened in WA, CA, CO and other states where popularity and politicians have already banned most trapping and predator hunting, or MI, where dove hunting is about to be put to a vote, and ME with bear hunting. Don't say it can't happen here. 40% of our population already lives in the SRA's and those are due to be expanded in the Lancaster and ABE areas, and their only exposure to domesticated farm animals and wildlife is their pet dog or cat and watching Bambi on the Disney channel. Game management decisions should be made by game managers, period. Seven days a week. You're just making excuses.

Simply because that's the way it's always been is just another of those fallacies that would have us still living in caves, keeping slaves, banning women from voting and banning all secular activities including shopping, football and baseball on Sundays, not to mention the lack of indoor plumbing seven days a week. Go look up logical fallacies or rhetorical fallacies in any search engine and you'll see that almost every argument that doesn't fall into those categories, does fall into fear-mongering, emotionalism or would be un-constitutional if applied to anyone else. Let's leave those tactics up to those who are morally against any exploitation of animals.

Even Bruce Smith, Chairman of the House F&G Committee and one of the most vocal oponents can't come up with anything better than your neighbor might post his land so you shouldn't be allowed to hunt on yours, religious groups that worship on Sundays oppose the issue, or you're a minority, and that alone is reason enough. Reasons that would be laughed at if he tried to apply them to anybody or anything else and even he doesn't have the gall to try and claim this outdated Blue law is some sort of game management tool.

Come on guys, quit being ridiculous, face the reality, the dog didn't eat your homework and there is no longer any justification for maintaining this draconian ban here in the land of the Free. It violates the very principles of Freedom. No matter why some people claim to support or oppose the issue, it has no legitimate reason to exist.

Pat_Ely

You made it political, I didn't. I gave my opinion as to why I don't think it should be changed. You keep bringing up that it should be decided by game managers, I agree with that, it shouldn't be a political agenda. But you missed what I said from the very beginning...IT IS MY OPINION and not being based on anything POLITICAL and as far as I Know it is still FREE here that I can voice my Opinion. You say that the PGC governers the harvest with tags and seasons yet there was a post on here that says How Many PA hunters are Pleased? And just about every hunter that replied to that was slamming the PGC for having so many doe tags and them not seeing any DEER. SO make up your mind are you happy with how the PGC controls the population OR aren't you? Again as I have already stated there is Sunday hunting, if it's not the deer or anything else deal, then go out and shoot some crows, coyotes or foxes. If it's just sunday hunting you want and not a DEER thing.

JeramyK

Ok, lets suppose Sunday hunting was made legal. What measures could the PGC take to control the population? Reduction in # of doe tags issued, statewide 4pt per side antler restriction, no buck hunting on Sunday, etc? It just seems to me that things can be done to lessen the impact on any animal whether it's deer, turkey, bear, etc.

ruffed-grouse

ROFLOL,
Let me see if I've got this straight Pat. You support scientific game management by game managers and not by political agenda/popularity but only six days a week 313 days a year, and one day a week, you feel game management should be by political agenda/popularity? You're certainly entitled to that opinion, but don't turn around and get upset when one day a week your fellow hunters refer to your opinions as anti-hunting.

Your reasoning that there's no need to hunt for squirrels or grouse or deer or other game on Sundays is right out of the anti-hunting agenda, where they claim our Freedom to hunt should require justification and there's no need to hunt, unlike the Freedoms of all others here in the land of the Free, where it's limitations that require those legitimate justifications.

Why don't ya join us Pat? Post your land against Sunday hunting. Teach it to your kids. Voice your opinion to the PGC Commissioners, but join your fellow hunters in supporting game management by game managers, seven days a week.