I like 445's idea/theory. I think it's quite sound. I've been thinking something like that all along, I just couldn't put it into words.

Let me add this: Personally, I think ALOT of the opponents of the AR's are lazy. They don't want to have to do their homework....they want to wake up at camp on Monday morning, go sit on "their" log(the same one they've sat on since 1972) and shoot the first buck that walks by. HEAVEN forbid they actually HUNT.

I reallize this isn't true in all cases, but in alot of camps this is what they've always done....tradition....

Interesting Jason, but it's no more true than to say that those pushing for AR are just too lazy to go find the mature bucks that are already there, and only want to increase the numbers of them so they don't have to hunt hard to find one.

Try again.

NJB, we are losing the true intent of AR. The reason for AR is for a more balanced herd, a heathier herd. Bigger bucks is a side affect of this. The PGC already has #`s to indicate that 1 out of every 100,000 bucks in this state reach 4.5 years of age. States like kansas, iowa, and illinois that do not have mandatory AR, still practice this on a large scale. Plus, none of these states have anywhere near the hunting pressure that PA does. A buck needs to live to get big, all the genetics in the world won`t make a buck big at 1.5 years old. I fail to understand why you are against AR. If you want to shoot deer, why not take a doe? You, as a non-res., can get a doe tag, maybe not in any county you want, but that happens to residents as well.

BC well said my friend. These AR's are a side affect to a healthier herd.

brian

NJB,
I can see how it can be looked at both ways. But, those of us that seek out the big ones already are putting are time in.

Personally, I search out bigger bucks.

For years people have said...."If you pass up that spike there might be some nice bucks around." We all know that, but we also know that that spike will just walk down that ridge and get shot.

I aplaud the PGC for taking the initiative to make changes instead of taking the "don't upset anyone" approach.

Honestly, I think some of the opposition is simply afraid of not be successful....thus complaining.

Just wanted to comment about the AR.

Some have pointed out that the top states don't have AR. Good point! But, you're actually missing the reason why. If you were to go into IA, parts of WI, ILL, and shoot a 4 point, you wouldn't be wise to tell anybody. Not even a 12 year old would go into school and tell his friends he shot a spike, it's just not accepted.

Kids are brought up that way, new hunters are taught that way, and they don't need the AR, because they do it already on their own, and have been for years.

WI has almost as many hunters as PA, but they have outproduced every other state in the past 10 years for P&Y and B&C harvest. I don't think it's any coincidence WI also has the most QDMA members in the country. They don't need point restrictions, the do it on their own!

PA and MI both have hunting traditions that go very, very, deep. Both of these states need regulations because people will continue to support archiac measures to manage the deer herd, mostly becuase of tradition. PA is taking a great step, MI is not.

You guys think this is about money? That's exactly why MI won't support a state-wide reforendum. They feel they could loose over a 100,000 hunters the first year. Your right, the decision is about money, PA chose to go ahead even if license sales decline, MI chooses to continue it's management by increased sightings and protection of license sales, at the expense of the health of the herd.

Jeff...U.P. of Michigan.

NorthJeff. well said again. those states that you mentioned are teaching at a very young age. People in PA just say shoot any legal deer. Then you have juniors licenses that might be different than the rest of us as they might allow younger bucks to be harvested. I am not sure about that but If it is then we are doing no favor to the heard and to our kids by saying you can shoot any buck and don't have to wait for a bigger one like the rest of us. We are not teaching our kids anything. They need to be taught from the beginning about this like they do in the other states like Wis and ILL so they start from the beginning. We have to start young or it will be very hard to break

brian

Well, here is an idea, I KNOW that I am really really going to hear it for this but I am going to say it anyways. I really don't believe it would work, but I am going to throw it out there anyways.

How about switching the rifle and archery seasons around. This would mean that most of the immature deer will be killed off before rut, the mature bucks will breed the does that are left over, then, this whole thing about immature bucks breeding would end. It would also lower the number of does greatly because hunters could hunt food areas instead of hunting areas where scared deer run to.

Good Luck This Season: Buck Magnet
"Hunting is not a sport, it is a passion, it is a WAY OF LIFE"

How about switching the rifle and archery seasons around. This would mean that most of the immature deer will be killed off before rut, the mature bucks will breed the does that are left over, then, this whole thing about immature bucks breeding would end. It would also lower the number of does greatly because hunters could hunt food areas instead of hunting areas where scared deer run to.


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What were you thinking BM? Whenever a rifle season happens,at least around here, the only way to hunt will be escape cover. That's a function of hunting pressure not when they're hunted. It also doesn't do anything to correct our out of whack buck/doe ratio. Thank goodnes that wouldn't work, cause as an archer I would personally be real unhappy with that arrangement.

I don't know, I was just throwing out an idea. I wouldn't like it either, but one of Alt's biggest complaints is that not enough doe are killed off before the breeding season. If there was an early two week buck/doe rifle season, the meat hunters would get there doe and immature bucks before rut. That would mean that the mature bucks and less doe would actually make it to breed. Also, I was describing the first day, most people could set up stands on the side of fields and wait for doe to move out to feed, I know that the deer would move back into there "hiding holes" but it would be a solution to some of Alt's problems.

Good Luck This Season: Buck Magnet
"Hunting is not a sport, it is a passion, it is a WAY OF LIFE"