RE: DEC has it figured out!!
 

I just read in my local paper the DEC is against this plan,go figure.

RE: DEC has it figured out!!
 

I shot him last year just to get some more meat for the freezer ;)

RE: DEC has it figured out!!
 

Priceless ..........do you even see the comedy in using that statement to bash someone else's literacy skills??




I wish that were true.........and I agree that is why you give out more permits. Problem is their just aren't enough deer to justify handing out that many tags in the areas I hunt. I can't even imagine how sparse the deer must be in places where you can't even get 2 tags. You must be lucky to see one deer all year.



Silly statements like that just flush your credibility down the drain...........it either means that you have not been reading the thread at all or your so closed minded that no matter what you read you think it all means the same thing. I....or anyone else for that matter have NEVER said there were no deer in my area. My family still took 3 deer this year and my buddies another 2. What I have said over and over is that the deer numbers are down to a very low level and we had to work extremely hard just to get a chance to see some deer and thankfully we were skilled enough to seal the deal when we did or we would have no meat for the year. We know the woods we hunt very well and we know how many deer you can expect to see thoughout the year.........we don't have wild or unreal expectations because the know the areas and what they are capable of providing and also what they are not capable of.

Well, spending so much time in just a few places it is not hard to realize......especially when conferring with others how things are going out in the trees. You see it with your own eyes and your family sees the same and all your friends and other locals see it as well. It's just a fact that in the areas I hunt the deer numbers are down. I have no problem with that in and of itself. What I do have a problem with is other people who have never even been there (YOU and a few others) telling me they know more about what is going on in my area then I and every other hunter that have spent our whole lives hunting in. I also have a problem with the DEC telling me that the local herd is large enough that they need to give out 2 doe tags to each hunter in those areas EVERY year. That is just ludicrous. The numbers are down and they have been going down for a long time........that is not the actual problem. The problem lies with the DEC and others failing to realize this or realizing it and not doing anything about it. The numbers are down......OK, just tinker with the tags a little and get it to bounce back in 2-3 years. No big deal and I am fine with that. I will wait patiently as long as I see someone actually doing something to help us and not make things worse.

More years of tag free for alls will reduce the numbers even more and make it even harder to bounce back from. If they believe we have such high numbers of deer that we should be listed as ALL-ALL on the tag draw something is VERY wrong......plain and simple.



P.S. I see you are getting the hang of that quote feature ;)

RE: DEC has it figured out!!
 

this is a favorite statement of yours. i don't need you to tell me whether I have credibility or not. I believe in what I say (and it seems that several others do as well or are at least on the same general page) - that is all the "credibility" i need.

RE: DEC has it figured out!!
 

When you make emotional statements or exagerate what people say it is a desperate attempt to get others to agree with you. Just state your opinions, and don't try and make it seem like people are saying things they are not..........that way people can truely judge for themselves the merits of your comments.


How can you say people "believe in what you say" when I just pointed out an exagerated lie in your last post??...........no matter how many people believe something it doesn't make it the truth ;) If all the "credibility" you desire is to get people to agree with exagerated lies maybe you should work at the DEC [8D]

RE: DEC has it figured out!!
 

If that is the only sentence in my whole reply you could come up with a reply for.........you are in trouble ;)


Just skip over all those important facts that have everything to do with the topic

RE: DEC has it figured out!!
 

This quote sums the whole thing up. Frankly I can't understand how you guys on the other side of this argument can't see this point.
How can you not have any merit with the opinions of the hunters who are out there year after year. I know you can't make the management decisions based on every Tom, Dick, and Harrys' opinion. But there are hunters out there with some validity in their assesment of the deer population in their area. And that validity is based solely on experience and observation afield. There is no scientific evidence or concrete studies done to back it up, but that doesn't mean that hunter shouldn't be discredited. In fact I would like that kind of hunters (and the hunters like him) opinion on the deer population everyday of the week instead of some DEC convoluted #'s.
I guess this is where I get hung up on this topic. Someone has hunted the same piece of land for 15 years. Family has hunted it for 40. Friends and locals communicate and have hunted all their lives. They drive the roads and observe deer all year round every year. You mean to tell me someone sitting in an office or someone on the other end of this computer for that matter is going to have a better graspe of what the status of the deer population is in that area? That person is going to be told they are wrong about the deer population? I aint buying it.

RE: DEC has it figured out!!
 

here's an honest, serious question for you NYB -

what about your neighbors 1 or 2 roads over (or towns even) that had great success and saw many deer?? you have to admit that the deer herd can't be micro-managed on such a small scale. as i have said in the past the herd can vary, regionally and locally, but management has to be a bit broader that by parcel and it won't always mimic everyones's beliefs or relate to their past experience, but on a broader scale will accomplish (or try to accomplish) the desired goal.

RE: DEC has it figured out!!
 

atlas - first of all you are the one bringing up credibility all the time and if you you haven't noticed, most (all but 2 from what I can see) are basically agreeing on this debate - that is what I meant by "believe", guess I should have said "agree"

forgive me for my terrible blunder

valid point - realize we are trying to talk in generalities. however, I do think that the herd, overall, is quite heathly and growing, but there are always areas that can have reduced local populations (see my reponse to NYB above).

RE: DEC has it figured out!!
 

I will continue to bring up credibility any time I see someone using exagerated statements based on emotions rather then facts.........or just plain lies. I think it is very important for people to know if what they are reading is the truth or some fabrication.......before they form an opinion.


You have people agreeing on what??..........that is a silly statement to make when you have no idea what types of land these people hunt on, where they hunt, how much they hunt, what they hunt with, how they hunt.....etc. You could be talking about people who hunt private land managed however they want, they could be part of huge groups that put on drives and move every living thing out of each plot they cross.........these topics all can make a HUGE difference in our subject.

You have no idea whether people "agree" or "believe" you. Maybe these people have been fortunate enough to hunt areas that still have large numbers of deer and a nice healthy herd. All I can say to them is watch out.........I hunted in the same comfort zone for many years and in fact, I would say I took it for granted just figuring it would always be there for me.......Well it isn't, and now all we have left are stories of how many deer used to roam our hills..........and no one is doing anything to help us get them back, if anything they will just be depleted worse in the next couple years.

If it's not happening to you right now then I am happy for you...........just understand that the wonderful situation you happen to be in doesn't exist everywhere in the state and instead of dismissing stories like mine as foolish, you should see that I am on your side and tell people things like this not only to try and better my local area..........but also to try and keep it from happening in other areas as well.


One thing I will guarentee you is that if Western NY has another season like this past one...........you will see and hear it from many more people. Many people who are not as dedicated to the woods will pass last year off as a fluke.............two in a row and they will start yapping to someone, hopefully in public.

RE: DEC has it figured out!!
 

What about them? OHHHHHHHh you mean the poachers that I've been telling the DEC about for 3 years and they haven't done anything about? The guys that I have license plate #, times and days of the week they poach, phone #'s, names, and addresses and have reported yet the DEC's resolution is to give them nuisance tags???? Those guys? Well swell for them. The real hunters 1 or 2 roads over are just as disgusted with the population as we are.

RE: DEC has it figured out!!
 

what do you mean - there have been a few posts here that have said they have been seeing deer and having good luck, including myself (Rockerfeller, Owasco, Moravia, ...) That might be not be quite 2 roads over, but it is a town or 2. Where exactly do you hunt again. (can't remember our initial discussions)

RE: DEC has it figured out!!
 

Anybody but me write their assemblymen yet?

RE: DEC has it figured out!!
 

Charlie P- To answer your questoion, yes, I have. TGK

RE: DEC has it figured out!!
 

Are innocent of doing this??

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RE: DEC has it figured out!!
 

May a bolt of lightning strike my golf bag if I'm not right about that.

RE: DEC has it figured out!!
 

I suppose. I don't know what the answer is. Maybe that's true. Maybe I better start knocking on doors in Owasco and Moravia then. I agree you can't micromanage an entire zone. All I know is something is definitely not the same in my area and the area surrounding it that I've been hunting for 15 years. No habbitat change. No developments to speak of. No roads built. Heck I think the same farmers have planted the same crops since I've been there.
Who knows. I guess I'll just keep on plugging away and do what I can do. No sense of losing too much sleep over it I can't really control the situation. Tis what it tis.

RE: DEC has it figured out!!
 

where do you hunt??

RE: DEC has it figured out!!
 

Oh yeah. Town of Throop (for the most part). Off Turnpike Rd. between route 5 and 38. Sound familiar?

RE: DEC has it figured out!!
 

Anyone else find it interesting that the guy telling everyone about how great the deer numbers are decided to drop out of this discussion when taken up on his invitation to put us onto a "LOAD" of deer???

Very coincindental don't ya think??


Still waiting.

RE: DEC has it figured out!!
 

Actually I talked with him about hunting and it's easy to find out what/where he's talking about.

You might be waiting, he talked with me.He proably talked with NYBH too.

Are innocent of doing this??

RE: DEC has it figured out!!
 

He hasn't said a word to me about it and I have asked him more then once. It's kind of ironic because he was using that offer as a way to prove his point.

I'll believe it when I hear from him myself. As of this moment he has fallen suddenly silent.



Are you asking me if I am innocent of doing this?? Having trouble with your shorthand ;)

If you are...........you will have to show me where I made emotional, exagerated statements without factual foundation. I try my best NOT to.

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RE: DEC has it figured out!!
 

I read that you were busy with some other stuff so I figured you would be back.


Ouch [:o]


Wow, you actually took this thread personally??......Dude, it's the internet. I don't remember insulting you directly.........and you gave as good as you got. Anyways, I was just accepting what I thought was an open offer...........if you would like to exclude me that is up to you.


Shoulda read this first............I'll check my PM's tonight.


Trail cams on public grounds.............ballsy ;)

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RE: DEC has it figured out!!
 

right back at ya ;)




Enough said


Perks...........gotta love 'em

RE: DEC has it figured out!!
 

Hey we'll never make it to 17 pages getting all friendly and crap.[:-];):D

Need more fuel for the fire so here's what I propose. I think NY should raise the brown trout limit to 42 per angler. There are way too many browns in the lakes I fish and they should be wiped clean off the face of the Earth.;)[8D][:-] Follow the same principal as they are with deer. Why not let's have no outdoors future at all[:-]

Actually I think the DEC does an outstanding job managing the waters of NY. I know it's a different ballgame all together, but ya see It's not strictly a DEC thing. Of course how could you screw up that program? No crop damage excuses. [:o]:eek:

I won't even get into their pesticide rules and regs. Try running a Golf Course with these power hungry maniacs breathing down your neck.[:-][:-];) Ok maybe I do have a slight problem with some of the DEC lol.

RE: DEC has it figured out!!
 

You guys are trying to set a record like most strikeouts in a season[:'(]Let the Pa guys keep their record;)

RE: DEC has it figured out!!
 

I really enjoy fishing the lakes and rivers of NY. Nothing quite like hitting the salmon run just right and going home with sore arms.

I have done most of my salmon fishing from a boat lately and frankly I long for the days of old when I used to pull them into shore at Burt Dam.........those days are long gone though.

DEC does a fine job with fishing IMO.........most likely because unlike deer they actually want and need good numbers of fish out there for sportsman.

If the day ever comes that fish start running in front of cars that could all change ;)

RE: DEC has it figured out!!
 

Thanks I didn't feel like looking through all these pages.

RE: DEC has it figured out!!
 

You think that is an emotional, exagerated statement with no factual base???

#1 It was more a sarcastic crack then an attempt to sway opinions with false statements or misleading remarks.

#2 It is true. The DEC needs to limit deer numbers because their bread is buttered by more then just hunters dollars. Not many people call the DEC every day complaining their are too many trout in the local streams. More fish=more fishermen=more $$. The same unfortunately does not hold true with deer as when their numbers rise so do problems such as car accidents and damage to crops and property, not to mention the forest. More deer does not equal more money to the DEC.........it equals more headaches. They have to find a happy medium.

#3 You must not be clear on the point I was making. A prime example that spurred my remark was someone posting that I said there were "NO" deer in NY. It is not only a misrepresentation of what the real point is but also shows an inability to see someone elses reasoning without jumping to extreme conclusions and assumptions. When you see this type of posting it is a result of someone who can't get past their emotions on a topic and discuss it reasonably.

You should be able to tell the difference that and sarcasm.