I just read in my local paper the DEC is against this plan,go figure.

I shot him last year just to get some more meat for the freezer

Priceless ..........do you even see the comedy in using that statement to bash someone else's literacy skills??




I wish that were true.........and I agree that is why you give out more permits. Problem is their just aren't enough deer to justify handing out that many tags in the areas I hunt. I can't even imagine how sparse the deer must be in places where you can't even get 2 tags. You must be lucky to see one deer all year.



Silly statements like that just flush your credibility down the drain...........it either means that you have not been reading the thread at all or your so closed minded that no matter what you read you think it all means the same thing. I....or anyone else for that matter have NEVER said there were no deer in my area. My family still took 3 deer this year and my buddies another 2. What I have said over and over is that the deer numbers are down to a very low level and we had to work extremely hard just to get a chance to see some deer and thankfully we were skilled enough to seal the deal when we did or we would have no meat for the year. We know the woods we hunt very well and we know how many deer you can expect to see thoughout the year.........we don't have wild or unreal expectations because the know the areas and what they are capable of providing and also what they are not capable of.

Well, spending so much time in just a few places it is not hard to realize......especially when conferring with others how things are going out in the trees. You see it with your own eyes and your family sees the same and all your friends and other locals see it as well. It's just a fact that in the areas I hunt the deer numbers are down. I have no problem with that in and of itself. What I do have a problem with is other people who have never even been there (YOU and a few others) telling me they know more about what is going on in my area then I and every other hunter that have spent our whole lives hunting in. I also have a problem with the DEC telling me that the local herd is large enough that they need to give out 2 doe tags to each hunter in those areas EVERY year. That is just ludicrous. The numbers are down and they have been going down for a long time........that is not the actual problem. The problem lies with the DEC and others failing to realize this or realizing it and not doing anything about it. The numbers are down......OK, just tinker with the tags a little and get it to bounce back in 2-3 years. No big deal and I am fine with that. I will wait patiently as long as I see someone actually doing something to help us and not make things worse.

More years of tag free for alls will reduce the numbers even more and make it even harder to bounce back from. If they believe we have such high numbers of deer that we should be listed as ALL-ALL on the tag draw something is VERY wrong......plain and simple.



P.S. I see you are getting the hang of that quote feature

this is a favorite statement of yours. i don't need you to tell me whether I have credibility or not. I believe in what I say (and it seems that several others do as well or are at least on the same general page) - that is all the "credibility" i need.

When you make emotional statements or exagerate what people say it is a desperate attempt to get others to agree with you. Just state your opinions, and don't try and make it seem like people are saying things they are not..........that way people can truely judge for themselves the merits of your comments.


How can you say people "believe in what you say" when I just pointed out an exagerated lie in your last post??...........no matter how many people believe something it doesn't make it the truth If all the "credibility" you desire is to get people to agree with exagerated lies maybe you should work at the DEC [8D]

If that is the only sentence in my whole reply you could come up with a reply for.........you are in trouble


Just skip over all those important facts that have everything to do with the topic

This quote sums the whole thing up. Frankly I can't understand how you guys on the other side of this argument can't see this point.
How can you not have any merit with the opinions of the hunters who are out there year after year. I know you can't make the management decisions based on every Tom, Dick, and Harrys' opinion. But there are hunters out there with some validity in their assesment of the deer population in their area. And that validity is based solely on experience and observation afield. There is no scientific evidence or concrete studies done to back it up, but that doesn't mean that hunter shouldn't be discredited. In fact I would like that kind of hunters (and the hunters like him) opinion on the deer population everyday of the week instead of some DEC convoluted #'s.
I guess this is where I get hung up on this topic. Someone has hunted the same piece of land for 15 years. Family has hunted it for 40. Friends and locals communicate and have hunted all their lives. They drive the roads and observe deer all year round every year. You mean to tell me someone sitting in an office or someone on the other end of this computer for that matter is going to have a better graspe of what the status of the deer population is in that area? That person is going to be told they are wrong about the deer population? I aint buying it.

here's an honest, serious question for you NYB -

what about your neighbors 1 or 2 roads over (or towns even) that had great success and saw many deer?? you have to admit that the deer herd can't be micro-managed on such a small scale. as i have said in the past the herd can vary, regionally and locally, but management has to be a bit broader that by parcel and it won't always mimic everyones's beliefs or relate to their past experience, but on a broader scale will accomplish (or try to accomplish) the desired goal.

atlas - first of all you are the one bringing up credibility all the time and if you you haven't noticed, most (all but 2 from what I can see) are basically agreeing on this debate - that is what I meant by "believe", guess I should have said "agree"

forgive me for my terrible blunder

valid point - realize we are trying to talk in generalities. however, I do think that the herd, overall, is quite heathly and growing, but there are always areas that can have reduced local populations (see my reponse to NYB above).

I will continue to bring up credibility any time I see someone using exagerated statements based on emotions rather then facts.........or just plain lies. I think it is very important for people to know if what they are reading is the truth or some fabrication.......before they form an opinion.


You have people agreeing on what??..........that is a silly statement to make when you have no idea what types of land these people hunt on, where they hunt, how much they hunt, what they hunt with, how they hunt.....etc. You could be talking about people who hunt private land managed however they want, they could be part of huge groups that put on drives and move every living thing out of each plot they cross.........these topics all can make a HUGE difference in our subject.

You have no idea whether people "agree" or "believe" you. Maybe these people have been fortunate enough to hunt areas that still have large numbers of deer and a nice healthy herd. All I can say to them is watch out.........I hunted in the same comfort zone for many years and in fact, I would say I took it for granted just figuring it would always be there for me.......Well it isn't, and now all we have left are stories of how many deer used to roam our hills..........and no one is doing anything to help us get them back, if anything they will just be depleted worse in the next couple years.

If it's not happening to you right now then I am happy for you...........just understand that the wonderful situation you happen to be in doesn't exist everywhere in the state and instead of dismissing stories like mine as foolish, you should see that I am on your side and tell people things like this not only to try and better my local area..........but also to try and keep it from happening in other areas as well.


One thing I will guarentee you is that if Western NY has another season like this past one...........you will see and hear it from many more people. Many people who are not as dedicated to the woods will pass last year off as a fluke.............two in a row and they will start yapping to someone, hopefully in public.