RE: Alt on Penna. Outdoor Life
 

The problem is, it is both, depending on where you hunt in this state, and upon who's land (public/private) you are hunting. Listen, I'd love for you to prove me wrong, and that I'll see tons of deer, and huge bucks on state forest lands I hunt this year. But I'm not hopeful. Good luck to you this season.

RE: Alt on Penna. Outdoor Life
 

The answer is neither, because the herd has increased in most WMU's and decreased significantly in 2 G and 2 F where most public land is located. That is why hunters are so divided and there is such a large difference in opinions. The guys that hunt 2 A at 36 DPSM, or 2B at 30 DPSM, or 2 D at 29 DPSM think hunting is great and Alt's plan is wonderful. Howver , those that hunt 2 G at 12 DPSM, or 5 C with 19 DPSM have a slightly different perspective.

Furthermore , when the PGc tells us that a harvest of 283k anterless in 2001 reduced the herd by 8% and the harvest of 352K anterless allowed the herd to increase by 1.6% , it is no wonder that many question the validity of the estimated 1.6M PS deer.

RE: Alt on Penna. Outdoor Life
 

I understand that public land is a tough nut to crack. Always has been. I know that seeing tons of deer is nice and keeps you interested and makes the hunt seem productive, but I have hunted many seasons that I saw tons of deer (on public land, by the way) but failed to see a legal buck. Seasons where nobody that hunted in my area saw a legal buck. That is very disconcerting to know that you will have to look over possibly 40 deer in one day and see NO legal bucks. I don't think that is a good management plan. I think that is a very unnatural condition and very unhealthy for the herd genetics. Protecting bucks to a degree is sound management. I believe that hunters should be encouraged to lobby for changes in individual WMU's to enhance the hunting experience. I don't feel however, that the deer herd should be managed foremost for hunter success at the expense of the resource or detriment to environmental concerns.

I thank you for your wishing me a good season and I wish you the same.

I also want to remind hunters to fully evaluate antlerless deer before they pull the trigger. Sparing BB is the single most important thing we can do to maximize the success of the objectives of the plan. Shooting a BB as a substitute to a doe is a waste of a future buck hunters successful hunting experience. You could be that hunter in a future season that goes home without a nice buck because of it.

24 hours to go to the starting bell. I wish everyone on the board, even those that have differing views than me, their best hunting experience ever.

RE: Alt on Penna. Outdoor Life
 

Alt also ask hunters to protect BB and small deer and guess what happened. After increasing the anterless season buy over 400% and allocating over 1 M anterless tags , the herd has increased instead of decreasing by the predicted rate of 5%/ yr. Now compare that to the success of the previous deer managers who were able to manage the herd so that we had the same OWDD in 1997 as we did in 1987. They accomplished this with a 3 day anterless season and less than 850K anterless tags because there was no protected class of deer and they did not discourage hunters from shooting fawns ,which make up around 45% of the anterless herd.

BTW, during this period buck harvests were considerably higher than the 2003 harvest, even though we had over 30 % fewer deer and hunters were not passing on BB.


Good luck !

RE: Alt on Penna. Outdoor Life
 

So there are more deer. And I think it is clear that there MUST be more bucks, with the decreased buck kill over the last few years. You cannot have a bigger herd, restrict the buck harvest, and have fewer buck. That simply is impossible. The bucks saved from AR did NOT simply disappear from the earth. If you are a buck hunter, your prospects are VERY good this year. I know that one must evaluate a buck before shooting it. One cannot simply spot a little peg on a buck's head and blast away. This is called discipline. I also think this is mainly the reason for the declining buck harvest. Hunters are unable to ascertain the legality of a buck in time for a clean shot. Those that refrain from shooting when there is doubt should be commended.

RE: Alt on Penna. Outdoor Life
 

Unfortunately you are wrong and all the facts prove you are wrong. For every doe in the overwintering herd that is replaced by a buck means 1.1 fewer fawns the following year. Harvesting adult doe versus fawns , reduces the breeding rate and recruitment. Anterless harvests increased dramatically since Alt took over and although those harvests failed to reduce the herd , they did reduce the number of BB that survived to become 1.5 buck. AR further reduces the number of legal buck available ,since at least 10% of those buck carried over are lost to non-hunting mortality. It is not as simple as saying we carried over 38K more buck from 2002 so there will be 38K more legal buck in 2003 and the harvest proved that.

The total harvest data also confirm that recruitment is declining since a harvest of only 465K kept the harvest stable in 2003. That means the net number of fawns recruited in 2002 was 465K. However, in 2002 a harvest of 518K allowed the herd to increase by 1.6% , which means the herd recruited 533 K , net fawns. That is why you can save more buck in an increasing herd and still have fewer legal buck.

RE: Alt on Penna. Outdoor Life
 

And you still maintain it's Ok to shoot 5 of 6 BB's. [:'(][:'(][:'(]

RE: Alt on Penna. Outdoor Life
 

Yes it is OK to shoot 5 or 6 BB and it is OK to shoot the 68,395 BB we harvested in 2003 . Not only is it OK but it is inevitable, if you really believe in herd reduction instead of just giving it lip service as so many Alt supporters do.

RE: Alt on Penna. Outdoor Life
 

Yes, some increase in BB kill is inevitable with HR via an increased antlerless kill. Any idiot realizes that. Once again I was pointing out the hypocracy of intentionally or even indifferently allowing your kill to consisit of 83% BB's when you continue to point out that it is counterproductive.

Once again, you seem determined to discredit ALL parts of Alts current policies and killing the BB's just proves that you are willing to do your best help it fail in your own little way.

Of course, statistically, your little campaign to overkill BB's is as insignificant as your misguided opposition to Alts program in the face of support for it from the majority:)

RE: Alt on Penna. Outdoor Life
 

Once again you ignore that the choice was to harvest 1 mature doe and 6 BB or just harvest 1 mature due. We did not target BB and we would have preferrd that all the deer we harvested were all mature doe or adult buck since we enjoy eating venison .

Furthermore, I didn't point out killing BB was counterproductive. That is simply your misguided interpretation. Killing BB is essential to herd reduction but those that support Alt cannot accept this inevitable fact. Whether you like it or not , if you support Alt's goal of reducing the herd by 50%, you are supporting the harvest of more of our buck as BB.

Now if archers stepped up to the plate and decided to participate in managing the herd and double the number anterless deer they harvested , then maybe , the percentage of the anterless harverst that are BB may be reduced. Until that happens ,rifle hunters will continue to be those responsible for controling the herd and they will continue to harvest BB.