RE: Alt on Penna. Outdoor Life
 

The biggest changes in hunting in 75 years?? LOL. All there doing is trying to make the buck:doe ratio alittle more balanced and trying to get the hunters to pass on dink bucks. This aint rocket science. If we sent a man to Mars or something then I could understand all the post that the subject generates, but come on, where just talking about VERY basic deer management, something that should have been done long ago in PA.


And so what if the number of deer in PA is reduced. Any good wildlife manager knows that the total number of deer should be well below the max. carrying capacity of the land. Seeing a reduced number of does is a good sign, it means the program is working. Hopefully in PA one day you might be able to sit in your stand and see just as many bucks as you do does, with half of those bucks being over 2 1/2 years old. This is what will happen when/if Alts plans come true.

RE: Alt on Penna. Outdoor Life
 

Here Here!! Just to let you know Tex, most of us north of the Mason Dixon line are willing to recognize our past mistakes, fix em, and move on.

The main reason this has generated so many posts is that some of us just cant help defending common sense and good scientific management when it is attacked by the uninformed trying to derail the process with half truth's and distortions.

RE: Alt on Penna. Outdoor Life
 

It is impossible to have a 1:1 B/D ratio or 50% 2.5 buck , with a 3 pt. restriction and 1 M hunters. With a 1:1 ratio there won't be enough doe to produce enough male fawns to replace the buck that are harvested, because AR doesn't protect enough 1.5 or 2.5 + buck to allow the herd to reach a 1:1 ratio.

RE: Alt on Penna. Outdoor Life
 

Exactly what did Gary ALt do to agitate you so much?

You have complained that he wants to reduce the herd too drastically and in the next breath said his herd reduction strategies are not going to go far enough because he protects the small antlered bucks.

You've complained about the BB kill increasing with the increased doe tags but admitted to killing a disproportionate number of Bb's yourself

You've made it clear you dont want AR but in your very last post you said it wont protect enough 1.5 or 2.5 bucks.... should AR be more restrictive to protect more bucks???

Sounds kinda like John Kerry..... say what you need to say to make George W.... er Gary Alt look bad. Dont bother you with the facts, you just want to make him look bad.

IT AINT WORKIN!!!!

RE: Alt on Penna. Outdoor Life
 

He lied and misrepresented the facts when he tried to sell his plan.


I simply pointed out that implementing AR is counterproductive to herd reduction and I have proven to be correct , since the PGC claims that 1 M tags and a concurrent season has failed to reduce the herd.

No, I did not complain about shooting BB. I simply stated the fact as we reduce the herd by 50% , it will be inevitable that we harvest a significant number of our buck as BB.

Finally, I didn't say AR wasn't protecting enough buck. I said the current restrictions would not protect enough buck to produce a 1:1 B/D ratio. There is no reason why we should have a 1:1 B/D ratio and there is no reason to have AR. Allowing a few more buck to live one year longer does nothing for the reeding ecology, breeding rates or recruitment and it hinders herd reuction.

RE: Alt on Penna. Outdoor Life
 

In other words its a plan high on hype... and light on substance.

RE: Alt on Penna. Outdoor Life
 

So which is it again?
Is it that there are no deer left and not like it was in the old days, or;
the herd is bigger than ever.
I am confused.

RE: Alt on Penna. Outdoor Life
 

Yes you are confused, and that is to be expected when you get misleading data from the agency in charge of widlife management.

RE: Alt on Penna. Outdoor Life
 

Well sport, those words came right from Pa's Game commission exec director Vern Ross and the head of the PA deer team Dr. Alt . So now you are disputing what they say too?
Wow, you know more than the people who hunt here, the people who developed the plan, and the exec director who is implementing it? Too funny!

Maybe before you throw out generalities and vague stabs at commentary you should do a little reading. Pa has always been below its max carrying capacity of the land. Pa's biological carry capacity number used in deer management is based on 50% of what the
'land will support'. So we have no even come close to mark set by biologists for CC in pa when the herd was at its highest point.

Pa's goal is to reduce the state to 13 dpm and it is reported by the PGC to be at 30 today. So tex you glossed over that fact in your flippant reply. Is Texas cutting its herd in half???? No..... ? So although you are trying to put down pa's changes as no big deal, it very much is a big deal to have ANY HERD IN THE COUNTRY cut by half.

So far you have gotten our CC wrong.
our adult B:D ratio was 1:2.1 before ar, so you got that part wrong.
and lastly you think we are just lopping off a few doe, which is wrooooooong.

Man your wrong about just about everything you said, except "it ain't rocket science".
You're right its not, and YOU still got it WRONG. :D

Seeing a reduced number of does is a good thing if you were overloaded to start with. But not very many places were overloaded since pa puts 900,000 deer hunters in the woods every season. For ten years Tex, we have been harvesting more antlerless than antlered! And now in 2003 we are at about 2 does for every buck harvested. So Tex, we ain't michigan, we ain't Arkanasas, we ain't like many other states that are taking more buck than doe..... so you better read up sport.

But we know that you know more than the head of the deer team, the head of the agency and the hunters of the state......or at least you think you do...

RE: Alt on Penna. Outdoor Life
 

That is not an answer, SPORT!
I want an answer.
Door number 1= no more deer, not like the old days
Door number 2= more deer than ever, plan isn't working
So, put an end to my confusion and give me your final answer. SPORT