BT,

Yeah I hear you on the Illinois thing. Last year the state started emphasizing doe reduction after getting considerable support for herd reduction based on soliciting opinions from a wide range of stakeholders, not just deer hunters. Then, this year you get some reduced harvests in some areas because of late crop harvests and some bad weather on a couple of key weekends, and suddenly you start hearing pretty much the same thing as some of the PA folks, despite the fact that folks still pretty much put meat in the freezer and horns on the wall. Illinois deer hunting is still pretty close to an alltime high in both quantity and quality, yet if someone did a poll they would probably get the impression that it sucks. Go figure....

Funny though that my Dad and niece each killed decent 7 pointers, although my Dad's hunting partner did get a very nice 11 pointer. My sister didn't even get a shot at a buck. So, all in all it was about a typical year for our area. Yet, it doesn't sound much better, and in some cases not as good, as what some folks in this thread were saying for their PA hunts.

Got that right bb. The all time high hunter disgust wouldnt be considered reasonable by any other management agency in the country. Changes wouldve been made long before now. And thanks to a nonhunterfriendly bunch at pgc, the changes dont look to be coming anytime soon.

Good point. Wonder if it will be addressed in the audit? Might be mentioned in passing, but doubt any emphasis will be put on it or that it will be used to show how flawed pgcs "plan" was right from the git-go.

Yep. that'd do it. Cant add harvest to an already overharvested herd without decreasing the herd further. Despite rsbs claims to the contrary, the herd, harvest-wise does have its limits and hunter harvest can cause herd decline. Suggesting even more hunters go find the deer and harvest more, with the current herd size will cause herd decline even faster. I dont think the goal for most is an even smaller herd than currently and even smaller harvest. That would be the end result. Have to have herd growth for added sustained harvest. No way around it.

They already do that. It's called DMAP!

My currrent favorite piece of public land is soon to become part of the SF. It has been logged intensively in the past, as it was paper company land, and so the timber was always in a state of rotation. It is also in close proximity to quality farmland, and the combination of the two factors, was a recipe for great deer hunting. It was always opn to the public, and recieved fairly high hunting pressure. Regeneration of oak in the cuts has been excellent...plenty of food here. Plenty of deer, too. My biggest fear is that the first item on the DCNR's agenda will be to DMAP the hell out of it. You know.....why should it have any more deer than the rest of the barren wastelands?

some views
 

i will try to not get off topic too much.question here in wmu2g of pa ,is having say 2 dpsm what we want to have or less.
regen is getting better in some areas but lots of other areas , not a bit of improvement.the areas with regen are areas that were selective cut say 20 yrs ago.areas not cut in any way ARE NOT GROWING A THING, NOTHING...........
it aint deer doing it, its SHADE........................
WITHOUT CUTTING OUT SOME OF MAPLES TO LET IN SUNLIGHT,REGEN IS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN..............
i saw 4 tracks in about 4 miles yesterday at our feeders.folks thats all that is there,4 deer.a lot are singles walking by themselves,that is awful thing to see, i never thought i would see this in my life..................
so if a major plan is not put in effect to open woods so things can grow, burning woods etc,no way regen is going to happen from what i see.
I TOTALLY AGREE THAT DEER HAVE NOTHING TO EAT IN THOSE AREAS UNLESS WE HAVE A GOOD ACORN CROP EACH YEAR.
i would say that regen is about 20% good and 80% bad .the 80% is do to NO SUNLIGHT HITTING FLOOR AND LEAF COVER ON FLOOR OF WOODS...............
as for AR,it is working if done according to rules.crews are shooting at ANY buck and have a kid under 16 tag it.THIS IS HAPPENING.
HR i feel went to far in clinton county,cameron and sou potter.
just too much hunting on doe now.
folks i only saw 2 fawns this year....think about that and i dont feel its FOOD doing it........

see i told you i would stay on topic..........:party:

Quote:

---

.....That's funny. I think you meant to spell out RSB's....but RSBS works out quite well too! LOL

---

Ha ha. Good catch! lol. . :lmao:

You got it. Hope you're wrong.

Lanse,

You called it spot on. If folks are telling the truth, an awful lot of the naysayers got their buck and had a good season and some have even mentioned multiple deer. While it's true that we have less deer now, that was as promised ( or warned about depending on how you viewed it at the time).

As for seeing deer, I dont see as many in the gun season either but I still see similar numbers in early and late bow seasons as i did before HR. The difference I see in gun season is there's no hunters out. Pa used to be one big ol deer drive simply by virtue of the sheer number of orange "popsicles" all over the woods on buck Monday. The deer bounced around like brown pinballs all day but it wasnt a hunt, it was a shoot. Now we actually gotta hunt during the gun season:rolleye0011:.