Some guys act like they never complain about anything.
Look at it this way, there are many on here that complain about situations they actually contribute to.

Example;

How many complain about the price of gasoline, propane heating oil?

Those prices are driven by supply and demand. The higher the demand, the higher the price.

Somehow I just can not picture you guys driving up to the gas pump with a big smile on your face. Every time you fill up, you create demand, yet you still whine about the price.

I'm sure you have at one time or another looked back at when gas was only $.79 a gallon. I'm sure that part of you wishes it were that way again.

That's how I feel about the deer population. Did I help make things the way they are today? I sure did.

Did you help put gas prices where they are today? You sure did.

Do I wish the deer population was back the way it use to be? I sure do.

Do you wish gas prices were back the way they use to be? You sure do.

I don't see anyone trading in their truck for a horse and buggy to combat gas prices.

So you see, you guys do some complaining yourselves and yet you helped contribute to the very problem you complain about.

I realize this is comparing apples to oranges. I just wanted to point out when the pot is calling the kettle black.

It would be easy for me to jump on the band wagon with you guys and say that there are lots of deer because I have no problem filling my tags. But I don't. I call things as I see them. There are alot fewer deer, period.

I guess if I didn't fill a tag, you guys would understand my position.........NOT....... In your eyes, I didn't hunt hard enough. Guys that didn't see many deer, you advise they seek other places to hunt. Because you were able to find where the deer were, everyone could do it.

So it wouldn't matter if I filled three tags or no tags your position is the same. I either didn't hunt hard enough or if I filled tags I shouldn't have shot anything. Seems like it is a lose, lose situation.

I'm not happy with the deer numbers. Yes, I've killed lots of does to put numbers where they are now.

Your not happy with the price of gas ans yes, you helped put it where its at today.

Not to get off topic...but our govt alows foreign markets to dictate oil prices....when they refuse to drill for our own oil...or tap the massive federal reserves. No...just as with every other product...they would rather buy from other countries...and let them rape us with their prices, while at the same time, sending mor e of our dollars and jobs overseas. Like Glenn beck said. Soon we will be the country that doesn't produce a damned thing. The world's consumer. I debt to every other nation on earth. I guess at that time, we will realize the dream of a green and beautiful nation...no industrial pollution, for there is no industry. No army to defend us, because we think building and maintaining strong defenses sends the "wrong message" to the rest of the world. then...we wil be ripe for the picking and some superpower like China will take us without a fight. You and I didn't create the mess with the oil prices. Our govt and the eco-lobbyists that would rather sell us out to the middle east than drill our own oil did that. And btw.....demand has already begun to ebb with the advent of hybrids, higher mileage cars, and biofuels, and is only projected to fall rapidly over the next decade.

Do I think deer numbers are low, yes I think stablization is the way to go now. Did I buy mutiple tags, yes I did. Did I have a chance to fill those tags, yes, mulitiple times. Did I fill them, no, I decided not to. It wasn't that hard of a decision for me.

Windwalker, I am shaking my head in bewilderment.
Your daughter quit hunting because she only saw 5 or 6 deer on the last outing?
Sounds like she is spoiled as far as hunting in an artificially high deer density. You may have thought you were making a point by saying that, but you made a different point than what you intended. I always thought you were a sincere guy, and I respect you as I think you are a good sportsman. I don't intend to bash you or start a flame war because you are a good guy. I just strongly disagree with most everything you said on this thread.

I was really trying to empathize with your situation as you explained it with your landowner and all but as you've posted more and more, you've demonstrated more and more that you talk the talk but simply dont want to walk the walk. You tell us deer numbers are way down yet you still hunt the same place and kill the few that are left. Lots of guys here tell us their deer numbers are down but don't kill multiple does. Guys like Sproul, Germain, Many Spurs, BWJ and Cornelius say there arent enough does so they dont kill em. Guys like Pats, Livbucks, DougE and I leave does go where they're few and kill them where they're abundant.

Every one I've mentioned, whether we happen to agree or not, is at least true to their beliefs. Can you say the same?

I guess you've got me with part of your post though, I do pull up to the gas pump a bit more often on my quests to find the deer:biggrin:

when we had doe,like say about 20 in 2 mile area we would harvest a few.dad wouldonly let you take a few each year. then in came other hunters and just about wiped out what is left.

so i killed doe years ago, lets say about 18 years ago when we had lots of doe.but i cant see killing off what is left even tho wives, brothers, sisters other hunters say,SPROUL IF YOU DONT DO IT ,SOMEONE ELSE WILL............i saw wives at sportsmans club say to husbands, DONT COME HOME WITHOUT DOE MEAT BUDDY.............boy they had mean looking faces on them too......

I hunt one area that has an absolute sick number of deer.The property was off limits to hunting since the 60's and the deer herd is huge and the habitat is trashed.I killed 5 deer in there this year and would have killed twice that many if I could get the tags.I also hunt many areas on public land that don't necessarily have loads of deer.The habitat is just starting to come back in these areas and I have no guily killing does,regardless of how mnay are there.I wouldn't kill any does in an area that had few deer and good habitat.At this point,I haven't seen such a place so I'll keep shooting doe without feeling any guilt.

Maybe I'm missing something. You guys talk about passing up deer and letting them walk because there aren't many deer in that area.

What are you doing hunting in that area to begin with?

If you honestly felt there were too few deer to hunt in some of your spots, why do you bother to drive to said area to hunt? Go to one of the areas that you feel have lots of deer and hunt there.

Doesn't make sense to me to hunt in areas you feel there are to few deer, get out and walk to your stand, hunt the day out and pass up deer. I can understand wanting "to be out there", why not take a camera and leave the bow/gun at home?



Funny thing is, most of the big debates in these forums are about deer population and management. You guys are actually admiting that there are areas that there are too few deer to kill any of the does.

You guys defend the PGC and bash me for whining about deer populations. On one hand I do what the PGC wants, I fill a few tags, on the other hand you guys don't feel there aren't enough deer in your areas to kill any deer, yet you defend the PGC and their policys.


So which way is it? Are there too few deer and the PGC needs to drastically change doe allocations?

Or are there more than enough deer and we should all do what the PGC wants and kill deer?

You guys feverishly defend the PGC on their policys. You defend the antlerless allocations and cite forest health.

I hunt within the law and do what the PGC wants and now I'm the bad guy.

Which way is it?

I say there are too few deer and the PGC needs to drastically make changes. I see a big drop in the deer population where I hunt.

Chances are, if you guys were to hunt along side me and see the deer I see, you'd think things were great. I'm just not happy when I compare how really great it use to be.

Call me and my daughter spoiled. To be totally honest, I'd actually agree. We were spoiled by how good the hunting was compared to now.


I've been to the NC part of the state several times. I even made a post a while back saying my hat is off to you guys that hunt that part of the state. I admitted I would probably give up hunting if that was all I had to hunt.

Maybe things aren't so bad in my area afterall. Maybe I'm just too spoiled because of the way it use to be. Maybe I'm too lazy to hunt hard all day long.

Things are going down hill in PA. Everyone knows it!

When guys like you have to limit where you will take a doe because it will impact the deer population in that area, in a round about way, you are agreeing that there are too few deer.

Glad to see you came over to my side:cool2:

Gotta ask, any of you guys ever hunt western Greene Co.?

unless you know of someone with privateland,YOU CAN DRIVE FOREVER AND NOT HAVE A LOT OF DEER TO HUNT.
like 80 hunters i saw in area i hunt.they keep coming back even tho few deer, they dont want to get lost or SAW A NICE BUCK IN BEAR SEASON.i think i was correct 2 bucks were killed in my area and maybe 2 doe for 80 hunters.

i stopped at 1 of camps who got 8 point and that was only deer they saw for 3 days out of 13 hunters.these are hunters that have been coming here for years.
actually i saw more doe killed in late muzzleloader season ,not in my area ,than i did in rifle.25 guys driving for 2 days got 3 doe,i large one and 2 fawns.they said they missed 5 .........
but they were hunting privateland half the time in those 2 days.

1 local group got 8 buck for 2 weeks with over 20 guys driving each day.
1 nice 8 point,1 nice 6 point and other 6 were sub legal bucks with kids tagging them.
they hunt HARD from dark to dark.they saw very few doe.